1 2 3 4 5 6 AIRPORT PLANNING COMMITTEE MEETING 7 Wednesday, November 19, 2014 8 10:30 a.m. 9 Airport Terminal Conference Room 10 1877 Airport Loop Road 11 Kerrville, Texas 12 13 14 15 16 MEMBERS PRESENT: 17 Stephen King, Airport Board President Kirk Griffin, Airport Board Member 18 Jack Pratt, Mayor, City of Kerrville Tom Moser, Kerr County Commissioners Court 19 Jonathan Letz, Kerr County Commissioners Court 20 21 AIRPORT BOARD STAFF PRESENT: Bruce McKenzie, Airport Manager 22 Carole Dungan, Executive Assistant 23 24 25 2 1 I N D E X November 19, 2014 2 PAGE 3 1. Additional New T-Hangars (Mayor Pratt) 3 4 2. Discuss Having APC Meetings only as required rather than quarterly (Commissioner Moser) 17 5 Adjourned 37 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Wednesday, November 19, 2014, at 10:30 a.m., an 2 Airport Planning Committee meeting was held in the Airport 3 Terminal Conference Room, Louis Schreiner Field, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 MR. KING: So, Airport Planning Committee agenda, 7 November 19th, 2014. I'll call it to order. This is on our 8 quarterly meeting, we think. Item Number 1; additional 9 T-hangars. Mayor Pratt. What do you have on that? 10 MAYOR PRATT: It's my understanding -- 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Did you find some money? 12 MAYOR PRATT: It's my understanding that we have 13 eight -- eight people waiting for hangars? 14 MR. McKENZIE: Nine now. 15 MAYOR PRATT: Nine now. And I think we should go 16 ahead and start the process for 12 more hangars. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Are we in the queue for that 18 with -- huh? Okay. 19 MAYOR PRATT: No, we got to get there. It's got to 20 start here. 21 MR. GRIFFIN: We were in the queue to resurface the 22 rest of -- the remainder of 3/21. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I'm talking about queue for 24 new T-hangars. 25 MR. KING: Not as of now. 4 1 MR. GRIFFIN: But it's the same dollars. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Oh, I see. Got you. 3 MR. GRIFFIN: We're in the queue to resurface the 4 remainder of 3/21 that wasn't resurfaced during the big 5 project, and -- and this Taxiway Echo right here. Though 6 that -- that eats up our next chunk of money that we would 7 have available from the State. We started that paperwork 8 in -- 9 MR. McKENZIE: Started about four or five 10 months ago. 11 MR. GRIFFIN: Four or five months ago. 12 MR. McKENZIE: We're in the queue for the new 13 paving. We will have -- 1 October of '15, we'll have 14 $150,000 already set aside in our non-primary entitlement 15 funds for this coming -- for the year we're in now. October 16 1 of '16, we'll have $300,000, and that's when we're going to 17 start the planning process on this paving. That's what it's 18 looking like now. 19 MAYOR PRATT: What's the paving going to run? 20 MR. McKENZIE: It'll probably run $350,000 to 21 $400,000, including the engineering. 22 MR. GRIFFIN: That -- 23 MR. McKENZIE: That's my estimate. 24 MR. GRIFFIN: That's the original runway, and the 25 subsurface has never been touched. The overlay that's on 5 1 that runway is the original stuff. So -- 2 MR. McKENZIE: But we think we can just put an 3 overlay on both of these and be good for probably 15 years. 4 MR. GRIFFIN: Be good. 5 MR. McKENZIE: So we'll overlay those with hot mix. 6 MR. GRIFFIN: 12 inches of hot mix. 7 MR. KING: Really? Both of them? 8 MR. GRIFFIN: On Echo and -- 9 MR. McKENZIE: On the taxiway. 10 MR. GRIFFIN: Taxiway. 11 MR. McKENZIE: The taxiway and that runway. 12 MAYOR PRATT: That's the sub on that concrete? 13 MR. GRIFFIN: No. 14 MR. McKENZIE: No, sir. This is -- 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Is that going to affect our 16 new little solar lights? Going to have to pull them out? 17 MR. McKENZIE: There's no lights over there. We 18 didn't put any over here. 19 MR. KING: Which is Echo? 20 MR. GRIFFIN: The long one that parallels the 21 apron. 22 MR. KING: This one right here? 23 MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah. 24 MR. KING: Okay. Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the funds are allocated 6 1 basically in '15 and '16, so the first funds that come 2 available are '17? 3 MR. McKENZIE: And the funds will be available, 4 Jonathan, next year for whatever we want to do. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But I'm saying -- I 6 mean, if that's the priority -- 7 MR. GRIFFIN: We've put in the queue with TexDOT to 8 do that resurfacing. The paperwork's already -- 9 MR. McKENZIE: The letters -- I've got that working 10 now. 11 MAYOR PRATT: How -- how old is the surface that's 12 on there now? 13 MR. McKENZIE: I can't find anything back 25 years 14 on it. I've done -- in the last seven and a half years, I've 15 done three things to that runway to try to hold it together. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Really? 17 MR. McKENZIE: And I'm trying to hold it together 18 for another three or four years. By that time, we should -- 19 we'll have overlaid that. So, we're gingerly hoping -- if we 20 don't have a lot of thaws and a lot of freezing rain, we'll 21 be all right. 22 MR. KING: Isn't it correct that TexDOT will take 23 priority over that? They'll require us to overlay that? 24 MR. McKENZIE: Well, they're not requiring it. 25 It's our responsibility. 7 1 MR. KING: If we say, Hey, we're going to spend 2 $300,000 here or $300,000 there, they would probably -- 3 MR. McKENZIE: Yes, sir. 4 MR. KING: -- push us towards spending on this. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: If you say, "We want to build 6 hangars or do this," they're going to say runway. 7 MR. McKENZIE: We've already had two of those folks 8 over there walking with me. 9 MR. KING: They don't want to have to come back and 10 rebuild it 10 years from now. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What would 12 hangars cost? 12 MR. McKENZIE: A million dollars. 13 MAYOR PRATT: Well, how much did these 12 cost? 14 MR. McKENZIE: $800,000, but you guys did a lot. 15 So did you guys, so that took the $200,000 off of it. 16 MR. KING: Don't you also think that -- I mean, I 17 would be -- I tell you, it'd be really interesting to see 18 what it would cost to build one of those hangars if you 19 didn't have TexDOT throwing a bunch of money at it and 20 inflating the cost of the hangar. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. It was about twice 22 what we thought they were going to cost, yeah. 23 MR. KING: They built a hangar down in Uvalde, down 24 there. Border Patrol moved. Border Patrol was occupying a 25 hangar over there in Uvalde, and they moved; they wanted to 8 1 expand their operations to put some more helicopters in, so 2 they had a hangar that was being -- that was owned by an 3 interior shop down there, big interior shop, about a 10,000 4 square foot hangar, and they basically made a deal with the 5 City to take over that hangar, with the understanding that 6 they would build a new hangar for the interior shop to 7 occupy, and -- and that the government -- federal government 8 would throw in some money on it. They'd throw in a bunch of 9 money. Actually, the City -- the City threw in the money by 10 way of a federal -- federal grant to help them out, because 11 of the -- it belonged to Border Patrol. They built a big old 12 hangar down there; actually, what's-his-name did. 13 MR. McKENZIE: Robert. 14 MR. KING: Robert built -- he built that hangar for 15 a million dollars. I mean, he told me a million. That is a 16 big hangar. I mean it just shows you what you can build for 17 a million dollars. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I remember -- what's the guy's 19 name in Fredericksburg? 20 MR. McKENZIE: Snowden. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Snowden told us -- and I think 22 I'm correct -- the last ones he built were, like, $40,000 per 23 unit. And I think he built -- I think that's right, about 24 40, and we paid, like, 80,000. 25 MR. GRIFFIN: But remember, he didn't put concrete 9 1 floors down. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's okay. So who says we 3 have to put concrete floors in? 4 MR. GRIFFIN: Oh, no, but I'm just saying -- 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No. As a matter of fact, he 6 did put concrete floors down. 7 MR. KING: Who built those hangars over there? 8 MR. GRIFFIN: Snowden did, the last ones. 9 MR. KING: Chris Avery's got -- Chris Avery's got 10 one of the nicest hangars we've got on this airport. 11 MR. GRIFFIN: Well, that -- 12 MR. KING: That's a 4,000 square foot hangar. It's 13 got all the amenities in the world. 14 MR. McKENZIE: You're talking about T-hangars and 15 you're talking about private. The T-hangars -- Snowden built 16 the T-hangars; they had no concrete floors. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, let's play devil's -- 18 I'm with Jack. You know, I think the more revenue we -- with 19 Jonathan; the more revenue we can get, the better. So if you 20 don't have concrete floors, and you build them for $40,000 -- 21 MR. McKENZIE: Well -- 22 MAYOR PRATT: Let me -- let me put some input here. 23 I'm not interested in doing a second-class -- either it's 24 going to be where you attract people to -- you've got people 25 over there. If they want -- if we go with non-concrete 10 1 floors, there's no incentive for them to leave over there and 2 come over here. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, that's true. 4 MR. McKENZIE: That's why we got several of the 5 guys that we have in these current ones. 6 MAYOR PRATT: Let's just stop that. 7 MR. KING: What if we do this, Jack? Why don't we 8 look at -- as an option, let's look at what it would cost to 9 maybe build three or four box hangars, small box hangars for 10 some of these guys, like King Airs and stuff like that. 11 They're very -- they're very -- they're a lot cheaper than 12 building a T-hangar. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 14 MR. KING: A lot cheaper. Isn't that correct, 15 Bruce? Because of the structure. And the rent on them is -- 16 is significantly more than what you get on a T-hangar. I 17 mean, you know, these guys will pay -- 18 MAYOR PRATT: I guess the question is, what's the 19 market for T-hangars versus -- versus the King Air hangars? 20 MR. KING: I don't know. I'll let you guys in on 21 something, is that Dugosh Aviation sold their hangar on the 22 end of the airport here. It's been sold. It's -- it's under 23 contract right now. And the gentleman who's buying it is a 24 good friend of mine, and his intent is to use it for 25 commercial storage, part of it. 11 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Is this a close -- 2 MR. KING: Aircraft storage. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Is this a close-hold plan that 4 you're telling us that's not for public dissemination? 5 MR. KING: Well, it's under contract, so -- I mean, 6 it's under contract now, and we're going to meet -- try to 7 have a meeting on it to approve the transfer of the lease. 8 But that is his intent, is to provide a mechanic, but also to 9 use -- to pick up a little bit of the slack here on some 10 storage, and put in some airplanes over there. Ronnie never 11 did that when he had it, but he's got -- there's a 12,000 12 square foot hangar over there with a 4,500 square foot 13 lean-to also on it that he plans on building an apron out to 14 and putting new doors on. And I think that's probably going 15 to pick up some of the slack on -- 16 MAYOR PRATT: The question I have, -- 17 MR. KING: -- some of these things. 18 MAYOR PRATT: -- is it going to change the purpose 19 of the building? 20 MR. KING: No. It's -- that lease is -- this lease 21 is purposed for aircraft storage, maintenance, pretty much 22 everything. 23 MAYOR PRATT: Okay. 24 MR. KING: Everything but an art gallery. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And hay barn. (Laughter.) 12 1 MR. KING: And he's -- and he's a very -- he's a 2 great individual who's got plenty of financial wherewithal to 3 take care of it. And -- 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Good. 5 MR. KING: -- and I think that's going to help pick 6 up some of the slack. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, let's go back to the -- 8 let's go back to the either box hangars or T-hangars. Just 9 run the numbers on what it would cost. 10 MR. KING: I mean, I think it would be -- 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: If the business deal closes -- 12 MR. GRIFFIN: That'll be easy enough. 13 MR. KING: I think it's interesting to look at, 14 because, you know, Snowden's done that. You notice, the last 15 hangars they built over there, they got away from T-hangars. 16 They started building these little box hangars over there, 17 because they could rent them for more. I'd just like to look 18 at one of them and see what the -- the cost is, versus the 19 rent, see what they are. 20 MAYOR PRATT: Let me ask you this question. Do you 21 think we would be biting off too much if we focused on 22 T-hangars and a box hangar? Because when you're going to 23 TexDOT, -- 24 MR. KING: Yeah. 25 MAYOR PRATT: -- you're going for whatever they 13 1 got, and then you don't want to wait three or four years to 2 get the next one. 3 MR. KING: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But if we don't go -- 5 MAYOR PRATT: So you do both at the same time. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But if we don't go to TexDOT, 7 just look at -- you know, build them first-class, but build 8 them without TexDOT participation, -- 9 MAYOR PRATT: Well -- 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- then you have to see what 11 the ROI is. 12 MAYOR PRATT: Well, the ROI is going to be way up 13 there, because with TexDOT, you only got your ROI on 14 10 percent. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, that's right. 16 MAYOR PRATT: Okay? So, the ROI is going to be 17 low. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. What's going to -- we 19 ran the numbers before, and it was -- you couldn't make -- 20 you couldn't close the business case. 21 MAYOR PRATT: You can't -- I mean, sure, it may 22 cost more money with TexDOT, but that's our money coming back 23 from TexDOT that we won't get otherwise. And so -- 24 MR. KING: I agree. I agree. 25 MAYOR PRATT: And that -- that -- when you're 14 1 looking at -- at it's only costing us 10 percent of whatever 2 it costs, you can not build that on your own. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Right. 4 MR. KING: I think Bruce -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can't build them for half, you 6 can't build them for 10 percent. 7 MR. KING: Maybe you can check with TexDOT and find 8 out if there are any special projects they got going as far 9 as for hangars or anything like that, still. You know, or 10 all of that has to come out of our -- our dedicated funds. 11 MR. McKENZIE: Okay. 12 MR. KING: I mean, you visit with them. You know, 13 explain to them what the -- 14 MAYOR PRATT: How about the Texas Enterprise Fund? 15 MR. KING: Yeah, or something like that. I don't 16 -- I don't know where that money goes. 17 MR. McKENZIE: That's the governor's -- 18 MR. KING: Yeah, the governor's funds. I'd like -- 19 I'd really like to look at the numbers on one of those box 20 hangars, just, you know, 40 by 40, just to see what it looks 21 like, because I know what it costs to build one for me to 22 build one. If I build one in my -- you know, as a barn or as 23 a -- as a hangar -- as a storage building or something out on 24 one of our leases or something, like in Sterling City I'm 25 getting ready to build one, and I know it's not very 15 1 expensive. It's not -- the numbers are really reasonable on 2 what the cost, compared to what it costs to build these 3 things that have all the interior -- 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Of course, you don't have a 5 big door. 6 MR. KING: You're right, I don't have that big door 7 that goes up on it. 8 MAYOR PRATT: We know we have a market -- 9 MR. KING: Yeah. 10 MAYOR PRATT: -- to fill up the T-hangars. 11 MR. KING: I agree. 12 MAYOR PRATT: Okay. Box hangars, I like the idea. 13 MR. KING: Yeah. 14 MAYOR PRATT: But I think we ought to look at it at 15 the same time. 16 MR. KING: Yeah, okay. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think bottom line is, we need 18 to start looking at phase two, the next step. 19 MR. KING: Yeah, exactly. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Building additional hangars, 21 whether it's box hangars or T-hangars. 22 MR. KING: Also, we need to look at location. We 23 need to look at some locations to see where we would 24 locate -- that's the other thing. The reason I brought up 25 the box hangars, we do have that location over there next to 16 1 Stieren's hangar that actually Robert did a design for. 2 MR. McKENZIE: Perfect place for one. 3 MR. KING: Robert actually did a design for it. 4 MR. McKENZIE: There's an actual design to put 5 three small ones -- 6 MR. KING: Three small hangars. It's kind of a 7 cool little design. He put a little design down in case 8 somebody wanted to do something like that, and it makes a 9 nice little piece of -- 10 MR. GRIFFIN: Utilizes that piece of it that we've 11 got. 12 MR. KING: Way better than just sticking one hangar 13 in the middle of it like we did with Stieren or somebody like 14 that. And -- and it would also utilize us -- help us, 15 'cause, you know, the ground lease -- like I've always -- 16 always told you guys, a ground lease is the worst thing we 17 have out there. Giving some guy a aground lease, unless he's 18 going to give us some sort of business or, you know, some 19 sort of a tax -- tax value or something like that, you know, 20 it's a terrible investment. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 22 MR. KING: Worst thing you can do, almost, is let a 23 guy build a storage out here, shut the door, and never pull 24 his airplane out. 25 MAYOR PRATT: That's the worst thing you can have. 17 1 MR. KING: Just doesn't have -- you know, you want 2 somebody doing something out here, you know. So, anyway, I 3 think it's a good -- good thing we need to bring up. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 5 MR. KING: All right. Consider/discuss having APC 6 meetings only as required. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. The -- I'll go back to 8 what the State does. The State, I think, every three years, 9 everybody has to justify their existence, every agency or 10 whatever. So, we started this Airport Planning Committee 11 primarily at Wampler's desire, because he didn't think we 12 were having good communication. I think we have good 13 communication now. So, with all that in the past, the 14 question is, do we need to have these, and should we be 15 obligated to have one every quarter? Probably not. I think 16 we're communicating very well. Just chit-chatting before 17 everybody got here today, we said, well, maybe we ought to 18 have one once a year anyway, just because it's a good thing 19 to do for the City and the County and Airport Board. 20 MR. KING: Mm-hmm. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: To do it in a little different 22 fashion, and maybe do it as part of the budget process. 23 MR. KING: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That was Jonathan's idea this 25 morning. So we might just change, okay, the interlocal 18 1 agreement, say we have one -- at least one, okay, and others 2 as needed, so we could have them any time we wanted to. 3 MR. KING: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Any member could call one. 5 City or County or Airport Board could call for a planning 6 committee meeting, rather than just being obligated to have 7 one. I hate to have a rule if we don't want to live up to 8 it. So, that would be -- 9 MAYOR PRATT: Well, I think that -- that the 10 planning process -- a lot of the planning process has been 11 done by the board. 12 MR. KING: Right. Right. 13 MAYOR PRATT: And I think that maybe we can shorten 14 the planning process if we meet like we're supposed to every 15 quarter. The planning would come from here to the board. 16 Makes it a lot easier, 'cause you've already come to some 17 type of recommendation from here. Shortens the board's time. 18 MR. KING: Yeah. I mean, I can -- I can see that, 19 but I also can see Tom's side of it, that we -- if -- you 20 know, if somebody needs a meeting, I think we can call the 21 thing. And, really, I wouldn't be opposed to twice a year. 22 I mean, I wouldn't even be opposed to that, doing it twice a 23 year, if -- if that was more, you know, amicable to -- 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. You just -- instead of 25 saying you have to. And if we have a rule, we ought to live 19 1 by the rule, so -- and I don't see any need to have it every 2 quarter, have to have a meeting for no reason. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 4 MAYOR PRATT: You can have -- you can have it, say, 5 meet every quarter, but no less than twice a year. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I mean, I think -- I 7 mean, I like the twice a year, because in government 8 especially, but in everything, really, a quarter goes by so 9 quick, you don't have time -- you barely -- 10 MR. KING: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: By the time you get ready for 12 one meeting, you're supposed to be planning the next one 13 already, it goes by so fast. But I think one of the -- a May 14 type meeting makes sense from a budget standpoint, so 15 everyone can kind of say, "Hey, where are we going this 16 year?" 17 MR. KING: Exactly. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On budget. And it's good to 19 have one possibly in the fall. 20 MAYOR PRATT: Even before the budget, because you 21 got to do the planning before you -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe it's April. I mean, you 23 know, but before -- 24 (Cell phone rang.) 25 MAYOR PRATT: That's mine. 20 1 MR. KING: I think that's a great use for this 2 meeting, is, A, you know, when the budget is being put 3 together, and B, also to find out, six months from then, or 4 four months from then, where we are. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 6 MR. KING: Where we were in the budget, and what 7 it's going to look like for next year. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, April and October. 9 MR. KING: You know, and some -- that way, you know 10 where you're at. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Oh, that -- October would be 12 good, 'cause that's the beginning of the year. Okay. 13 MR. KING: And then you can also review what 14 happened in the budget. I mean, I think that's one thing we 15 don't do enough of. I'd like to see us review what we had in 16 our budget last year, what the year -- last year's budget 17 was, and how we conformed to that budget. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Good. 19 MR. KING: Conformed to that budget. 'Cause I 20 notice every time we do a budget, there's -- you know, 21 there's certain things that get hit really hard, and there's 22 certain things that just don't get touched. You know, and we 23 address those back when we're making the budget, but I think 24 it would be a good time to do a review of that, would be in 25 October, you know, when we got all the numbers and stuff. 21 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, when's our interlocal 2 agreement up? September? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: September 30th, I think. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: September 30th next year. So, 5 we could change it now, or we could just wait till then. 6 MR. KING: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think wait till then, as part 8 of that new agreement. 9 MAYOR PRATT: I don't have a preference one way or 10 the other. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can -- 13 MAYOR PRATT: Whatever y'all guys want to do on 14 that. It makes sense to wait until you redo it. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But by the time we did it, we 16 went through, wrote an amendment, got it through us, got it 17 through you, -- 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- we'd already be there. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let's do that. Let's change 21 it when we redo the interlocal agreement. Change it to -- 22 MAYOR PRATT: But I'd like to have it still stay as 23 quarterly, but no less than twice a year. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's okay. 22 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. 2 MR. KING: That's fine. I don't have a problem. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we can just -- 4 MAYOR PRATT: Because it gives us -- then if we 5 need to have a meeting, you have it. 6 MR. KING: Yeah, that's fine. 7 MAYOR PRATT: Because if we're starting the 8 planning now for 12 hangars and box hangars, -- 9 MR. KING: Yeah. 10 MAYOR PRATT: -- you're going to need planning 11 meetings more than twice a year on that. 12 MR. KING: Sure. Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You just might put it in -- 14 Bruce, in your tickler to send out an e-mail end of January. 15 "Do we need a first quarter meeting?" Then we can respond, 16 yes or no. And if it's no, then we'll meet in April. 17 MAYOR PRATT: Well, we should have -- we should -- 18 I guess we should have -- at our next meeting, we should have 19 something about what it would cost for a box hangar, 'cause 20 it comes back here. We're not going to take that to the 21 board yet. 22 MR. KING: Right. Right. 23 MAYOR PRATT: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 25 MR. KING: That'll be fine. We can talk to Robert, 23 1 kind of get some ideas what -- what it costs. 2 MAYOR PRATT: We already know what it costs for the 3 T-hangars. 4 MR. KING: To build them. 5 MAYOR PRATT: But we need the box hangars. 6 MR. KING: Find out what it costs to build. That 7 would be fine, okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 9 MR. KING: Anybody have anything else? 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let's see. What's the update 11 on the Mooney thing? As best I know, they're going to let a 12 contract early January, something like that. 13 MR. McKENZIE: The bids are due December 10th. 14 We're going to open them on the 16th. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 16 MR. McKENZIE: Barry told me they would make a 17 decision by the second week of January. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 19 MR. McKENZIE: So they should be working in 20 February. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What problems did they have 22 with the heavy rains we had a week or so ago? 23 MR. McKENZIE: It leaked like a sieve. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean -- 25 MAYOR PRATT: Pretty bad. 24 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: What did it do to their 2 operation? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's my question. 4 MR. McKENZIE: They kept going. 5 MAYOR PRATT: They had to move planes around, and 6 that disrupts the production. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But they just -- they 8 made it through it. 9 MR. KING: What was the turnout? You had 11 10 people -- 11 MR. McKENZIE: We got 13 Tier 1 roofing contractors 12 across the state. Some of them flew in here to look at the 13 job. I mean, these guys -- 14 MR. KING: Good guys. 15 MAYOR PRATT: When I was at T.M.L., I met some 16 roofing companies. 17 MR. McKENZIE: I told them -- 18 MR. KING: So, you're -- you think 13 people are 19 interested in bidding on it? 20 MR. McKENZIE: Well, I had 13 -- we had 13 people, 21 but I walked around and took three hours on that 22 walk-through. But as I watched those guys and ladies, two or 23 three of them -- like I told Kirk, they -- they had that 24 "deer in the headlights" look when they saw that. It's, 25 like, this is a big project. Like, we may not -- you can 25 1 tell they were -- some of them were into it, but I don't 2 think we'll get 13 bids. But we might. They might put a big 3 number on it and throw it in there. They were fascinated. 4 MAYOR PRATT: They had to have been here, right? 5 MR. McKENZIE: You had to be pre-qualified, and you 6 had to be here. 7 MAYOR PRATT: So we're not going to get more bids 8 than 13. 9 MR. McKENZIE: 13 max. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you get five or six, that 11 would be fantastic. 12 MR. KING: No local companies bidding on it? 13 MR. McKENZIE: Nobody could handle it. Beldon 14 Roofing out of San Antonio, they're a big -- they were here. 15 MR. GRIFFIN: There's a couple -- one out of 16 Austin. 17 MR. McKENZIE: Houston, Bay City, Dallas. 18 MR. KING: Oh, good. 19 MR. McKENZIE: They showed up. They were -- these 20 guys were the real deal. Appear to be. 21 MAYOR PRATT: 'Cause I talked to them at the T.M.L. 22 conference. 23 MR. KING: Yeah. 24 MAYOR PRATT: 'Cause they had booths there. They 25 were big roofing companies. 26 1 MR. KING: Right. 2 MAYOR PRATT: And, boy, their eyes lit up. 3 MR. KING: That's good. 4 MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah, it was all over the state. It 5 was pretty impressive. 6 MR. KING: So, one other thing that I want to bring 7 up to you guys. We have a -- we have on an agenda for -- we 8 had on the agenda for a meeting last week -- or Monday, we 9 had an agenda for this -- what do you call it? 10 MR. GRIFFIN: C.P.I. 11 MR. KING: C.P.I. adjustments. This C.P.I. thing. 12 And this thing has turned out to be a -- 13 MR. GRIFFIN: Do you guys know the story on this? 14 MR. KING: Do you know the back story on this 15 C.P.I. adjustment? 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, we used Dallas or -- 17 MR. GRIFFIN: That's even a different part of it. 18 MR. KING: What we did was we -- we looked into -- 19 two of our tenants brought this up; Steve Drane brought this 20 up and Ronnie Kramer brought it up. And we looked at it. We 21 looked into it, and we have got -- there's a C.P.I. 22 adjustment in everyone's lease except for Joey Kennedy's. 23 So, what we -- and so I just had Carole pull all the leases 24 we have, and let's basically look at all the leases, put them 25 all on a spreadsheet. Let's find out what everybody is 27 1 subject to. Well, they're all subject to what C.P.I. 2 language they're subject to. So, what we found out was that 3 everyone is pretty much subject to every deal in the world 4 they made out here at some point in their life. It's like 5 "Let's Make a Deal." It's literally "Let's Make a Deal." 6 You know, this is something that we're going to bring up in 7 our board meeting, is we're going to get a standardized 8 lease, and we're going to live with it. We're going to live 9 with it, and we're not going to let lawyers for people who 10 want to come in on our property adjust our leases 11 significantly, like has happened in the past. And -- and 12 we're not going to make deals with other people. And unless 13 it is -- you know, we have to make -- I'm not saying we're 14 not going to make deals, 'cause we obviously made a deal with 15 Mooney. We made a deal, but it -- but we're going to try to 16 be a little more -- 17 MR. McKENZIE: Assertive. 18 MR. KING: -- assertive, and a little more -- 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Standardized. 20 MR. KING: -- standardized than what we are right 21 now. Because right now, what we got is like -- 22 MR. GRIFFIN: It's across the board. I mean -- 23 MR. KING: It's across the board. People got -- 24 MR. GRIFFIN: But part of it, too, is -- is the 25 inception. A lot of these contracts were 15, 20 years ago, 28 1 and then we got ones done in the last two or three years. 2 Things have changed. 3 MAYOR PRATT: Let me give you my input on that. My 4 input is -- is that we don't refund any money, period. 5 MR. KING: Mayor, we have not agreed to refund any 6 money, okay. What we have -- what we as a board think -- 7 what I -- let me state my position, because I'm not going to 8 say I can speak for the board yet; we haven't voted. My 9 position is that we are going to adjust everyone's lease to 10 where -- to the C.P.I. language, which is how the C.P.I. 11 language should have been interpreted at the start of their 12 lease, okay. It's going to cost us some revenue. We're 13 going to lose some revenue on the thing, but it's also going 14 to keep us out of the courthouse, 'cause I know two people 15 already who have lawyers ready to come to this meeting and -- 16 and take action on us. 17 MAYOR PRATT: I would be willing to bet you the 18 statute of limitations is expired on that. 19 MR. KING: It says -- 20 MAYOR PRATT: It's a -- some of these long-term 21 leases go back 15, 20 years. 22 MR. KING: Well, most of them are only four 23 years -- the two I'm talking about are four years old, four 24 to five. Steve Drane's -- 25 MAYOR PRATT: Well, it's only three years since -- 29 1 MR. KING: -- is so screwed up that Steve Drane, 2 who has a hangar over here, he came -- he's had his for three 3 renewals now? 4 MR. McKENZIE: This is his second one. 5 MR. KING: This is his second one. After the first 6 renewal, he has sent emails to the City and the County 7 contesting it. I mean, lengthy emails contesting it, 8 contesting the way it was made, the way -- 9 MAYOR PRATT: How long do those e-mails go back -- 10 how far back? 11 MR. KING: One of them's last year. Last year, and 12 it's a string of -- string of e-mails where he said, "Y'all 13 are not computing this right, it's wrong." And he was 14 basically told, "You're not right. Have a nice day. Pay 15 the..." 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Here comes the lawyers. 17 MR. KING: So -- I mean, so -- and it's not -- it's 18 like a precedence -- huge precedence in the thing, and then 19 they changed it. He got his changed how many years ago? 20 Five years? 21 MR. McKENZIE: Yes, four years. 22 MR. KING: Four years ago, he got his changed. 23 Nobody else -- nobody else -- 24 MAYOR PRATT: How'd it get changed? 25 MR. KING: He complained so much that they changed 30 1 it. So, he got his changed, and nobody else got theirs 2 changed. Nobody on the airport got theirs changed. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: My goodness. 4 MR. KING: So you got -- 5 MAYOR PRATT: You got Gulf States Toyota; I'm sure 6 they have a few lawyers on their staff. I'm sure they could 7 probably -- 8 MR. KING: These guys have been paying. George 9 Stieren down here, he's been paying. You got all these 10 people -- so what we're going to do, we're going to be -- 11 going to rectify the problem by hopefully just backing it up 12 and saying, "Your rent is not supposed to be $560 a month; 13 it's now going to be $425 a month." And then the C.P.I. 14 language we are going to insert in everyone's lease is this 15 language, and we're going to ask that everyone sign this. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 17 MR. KING: And it'll be inserted as an amendment 18 into your lease, and from this point forward, everyone will 19 be under the same grounds, and your lease -- your rent will 20 go up by what the C.P.I. actually goes up. 21 MAYOR PRATT: When you say -- I'm just using your 22 numbers now, going from $560 to $425. 23 MR. KING: Right. 24 MAYOR PRATT: When you used the 425, did you go 25 back to the origination of the lease, take the lease and take 31 1 the C.P.I. and -- 2 MR. KING: Mm-hmm. 3 MAYOR PRATT: Using, across the board, the same 4 formula? 5 MR. KING: We took the index, and we used the index 6 that was in their lease. 7 MAYOR PRATT: Which index did you use? Dallas? 8 MR. KING: The one it says in their lease to use. 9 MR. McKENZIE: We've been through it. 10 MR. KING: The problem is that we don't -- it works 11 for everybody except for George Stieren and Gulf States 12 Toyota, because in somebody's wisdom, when they signed the 13 Gulf States lease, the index they used is not the right 14 index. It's an index for five years -- five years behind; 15 it's a 2003 index, and it says it's the 2007 index. 16 MAYOR PRATT: Let me ask you this. 17 MR. KING: So, what it does is when you figure 18 theirs, every year you figure theirs, it goes back five 19 years, so they have a five-year increase automatically. 20 They're paying for five years of C.P.I. that they weren't 21 even in the hangar for. They were not -- didn't even have a 22 hangar. So, theirs is all screwed up. So, what we're going 23 to do, Mayor, just for a second, is we're going to get -- 24 Corey Walters is going to get his C.P.A. to take a look at it 25 and try to figure out what the language in Stieren's -- and 32 1 the language in Gulf States Toyota is very -- it's hard to 2 understand. It's very difficult to understand. And Gulf 3 States Toyota wrote the language. They wrote the language in 4 that deal. It's very weird, difficult to understand. It has 5 ratios -- there's no formula. It's ratios. This ratio shall 6 be the same as this ratio, and you can increase no more than 7 5 percent. So, the -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Steve, why -- and, I mean, I'm 9 not sure I fully understand the whole magnitude of the 10 problem, but it seems to me that rather than have a private 11 C.P.A. write the language, -- 12 MR. KING: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- it should be written by the 14 County Auditor and whoever the equivalent is at the City. 15 MR. KING: They've done that -- already done that. 16 No, we're just trying to get an opinion. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, you just want an opinion. 18 MR. GRIFFIN: What we're doing -- 19 MR. KING: We're trying to get an opinion on how it 20 should be in the real world, about how to figure those two 21 leases. 22 MAYOR PRATT: If I could bottom line it, and 23 correct me if I'm wrong, but basically what's happened is 24 that they compounded the C.P.I. That's, bottom line, what 25 happened. Instead of taking the C.P.I. -- 33 1 MR. KING: And going back. 2 MAYOR PRATT: -- and going back, they compounded 3 every year. That's basically what happened. 4 MR. KING: Basically what happened. Their leases 5 were going up 10 to 15 percent a year. 6 MR. GRIFFIN: C.P.I.'s. 7 MR. KING: C.P.I. was going up to 1.4, 1.1. And 8 they didn't complain about it. They didn't complain about 9 it. 10 MAYOR PRATT: Here's my concern. How many leases 11 have expired and not been renewed, that they'll come back and 12 say, "We want in on that deal too; we want our money back"? 13 MR. KING: I don't think there's any. 14 MR. McKENZIE: We're very -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's no refunds. You're 16 just saying -- there's no refunds. It's just from this date 17 forward, it's the new rate. 18 MAYOR PRATT: There is a refund, because they're -- 19 they're going to -- if I've gone four years or three years or 20 two years overpaying my rent $150, -- 21 MR. KING: Yeah. 22 MAYOR PRATT: -- then I'm going to go -- and my 23 rent is now $325, I'm going to get three months free. 24 MR. KING: Yeah. And we're -- 25 MAYOR PRATT: That's three months with no revenue. 34 1 MR. KING: We'll cross that when people get there. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: See what it is. 3 MR. KING: Right. You know, we're going to give up 4 about 12,000 -- we're going to give $12,000 in income up on 5 the -- on the leases. 6 MR. GRIFFIN: Across -- that's 19 leases. 7 MR. KING: We're fortunate in that Joey -- 8 Kerrville Aviation's lease, he evidently had a special 9 meeting when he got his, 'cause he doesn't even have a C.P.I. 10 index. And his lease goes up by -- it was going up by some 11 number. It's the most bizarre thing you've ever seen. It 12 goes up by a dollar figure every year. But next year, his 13 goes back into a conforming lease, and he goes up $500 a year 14 plus the C.P.I. It goes up plus the C.P.I., so he gets hit 15 next year for a bunch. He hits the C.P.I. next year, so he 16 gets in line. So, we just want to go to all these people and 17 say, look -- and no one should complain. Stieren and 18 Friedkin shouldn't complain, 'cause they're going to get a 19 reduction, because the way theirs is written, they would be 20 subject to 5 percent a year. And so it's going to be 21 everyone else. There's no -- most of the little leases are 22 small leases for these offices and stuff like that. And none 23 of the Brinkman hangar leases are even affected yet. Ronnie 24 -- Ronnie -- Steve Drane has already complied. He's happy. 25 Ronnie Kramer knows what his lease is going to be. He's 35 1 actually paid, I think. 2 MR. McKENZIE: Actually, he paid us yesterday for 3 two months. He said, "I'm fine now." He said -- 4 MR. KING: He's happy. And so I don't think it's 5 going to affect a whole lot of people. I just think it's 6 going to get everything right with the world again, so that 7 we don't get -- this doesn't come up 20 years from now. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But when we go through them 9 all, they're going to sign something that -- 10 MAYOR PRATT: A release. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A release from everything. 12 MAYOR PRATT: They got to sign a release. 13 MR. KING: I hope we can get them to sign. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause it's not -- I mean, 15 that's almost a requirement, in my mind. 16 MAYOR PRATT: Yeah. We don't want do it without 17 that. 18 MR. KING: I mean, that's what our plan is. I just 19 want to kind of update you guys, that's what we're going to 20 try to do. We're going to try to make it -- it's not as bad 21 as you think it is, because the biggest -- biggest tenant is 22 Joey. We thought Joey's was -- he's not even subject to it, 23 so he's not even in the deal. He doesn't get -- he doesn't 24 get anything back. His lease is written totally different. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's good to try to 36 1 standardize the thing. 2 MAYOR PRATT: Going to cost us $1,000 in revenue. 3 MR. KING: Going to cost us about that. 4 MAYOR PRATT: For a year. 5 MR. KING: Then we go back, exactly. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And the lawyers' fees would 7 cost more than that. 8 MR. KING: Just one of these deals where it comes 9 down to I think it's right. Everybody on the board, I think, 10 will think -- also think it's right. 11 MR. GRIFFIN: The board members -- we've talked 12 individually, 'cause we haven't had a meeting, but I think 13 everybody's in agreement that we have to do something, 14 because it isn't right. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Don't put that in the minutes, 16 "talked individually." 17 MR. GRIFFIN: Well -- 18 MR. KING: You talked to one other board member. 19 How's that? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You talked to Steve. 21 MR. GRIFFIN: I talked to one -- two other ones. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No, that's not legal either. 23 That's illegal. 24 MR. KING: Okay. 25 MAYOR PRATT: Can't do that. 37 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's called a quorum by 2 walking around. You can't do that. 3 MR. GRIFFIN: No, just on -- 4 MR. KING: Anybody else have anything else? 5 Anybody else have anything else? 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let's adjourn. 7 MR. KING: Adjourned. 8 (Meeting was adjourned at 11:08 a.m.) 9 - - - - - - - - - - 10 11 STATE OF TEXAS | 12 COUNTY OF KERR | 13 I, Kathy Banik, official reporter for Kerr County, 14 Texas, do hereby certify that the above and foregoing is a 15 true and complete transcription of my stenotype notes taken 16 at the time and place heretofore set forth. 17 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 20th day of November, 18 2014. 19 _______________________________ Kathy Banik, Texas CSR # 6483 20 Expiration Date: 12/31/16 Official Court Reporter 21 Kerr County, Texas 700 Main Street 22 Kerrville, Texas 78028 Phone: 830-792-2295 23 24 25