1 2 3 4 5 AIRPORT PLANNING COMMITTEE MEETING 6 Wednesday, June 18, 2014 7 10:00 a.m. 8 Airport Terminal Conference Room 9 1877 Airport Loop Road 10 Kerrville, Texas 11 12 13 14 MEMBERS PRESENT: 15 Stephen King, Airport Board President Kirk Griffin, Airport Board Member 16 Jack Pratt, Mayor, City of Kerrville Carson Conklin, Kerrville City Council 17 Tom Moser, Kerr County Commissioners Court Jonathan Letz, Kerr County Commissioners Court 18 James Robles, Kerr County Assistant Auditor 19 AIRPORT BOARD STAFF PRESENT: 20 Bruce McKenzie, Airport Manager Carole Dungan, Executive Assistant 21 22 VISITORS: 23 JONAS TITAS, Kerr Economic Development Corporation BARRY HODKIN, Mooney International Corporation 24 MARK ARMSTRONG, Kerrville Daily Times 25 2 1 I N D E X June 18, 2014 2 PAGE 3 * Establish Planning Committee membership 4 4 * Process and procedures for roof repairs for Mooney facilities 7 5 * Status of facility leases, including Mooney 6 International, Brinkman Hangar, all T-Hangars 55 7 * Status of Mooney Buildings 17 and 18 60 8 * Projected revenue for Mooney buildings in 2015 61 9 * Plans (schedule, funding, and procedures) for other potential capital improvements 62 10 * Update on Mooney International and Alamo Community 11 College operations 71 12 * Plans and liabilities for facility maintenance 73 13 * Schedule for next meeting 82 14 Adjourned 82 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Wednesday, June 18, 2014, at 10:00 a.m., an Airport 2 Planning Committee meeting was held in the Airport Terminal 3 Conference Room, Louis Schreiner Field, Kerrville, Texas, and 4 the following proceedings were had in open session: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 MR. KING: All right. We'll call this airport -- 7 this Airport Planning Committee meeting to order. Do you 8 need to know who's in attendance? Are you okay? All right. 9 You know everybody? All right. Where do y'all want to 10 start? 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, I sent Bruce an agenda, 12 some suggested topic items, and here they are. 13 MR. KING: Is this it? Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think it's -- you know, the 15 first -- 16 MR. KING: Let me first of all say, you know, 17 there's been some talk about why we haven't had these 18 meetings and stuff. I know it's been in the paper a little 19 bit -- Mark, you're really good. But, you know, we did try 20 to have a couple of these meetings to start, and then it kind 21 of fell on deaf ears, and then we kind of -- everybody 22 started attending the meetings more. We have two 23 commissioners and usually some city staff here. And so, you 24 know, I'm not opposed to having these meetings; I just -- I 25 think they need to be relevant. If we need to have them, 4 1 they need to be relevant, and they need to be -- you know, 2 talk about topics that are not talked about in a monthly 3 meeting. Every month we have a meeting already. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 5 MR. KING: So I don't think we need to rehash that 6 over and over. But if you have anything, obviously, that 7 needs to be talked about sooner than one of these meetings, 8 it can be brought up and put on the agenda, so -- okay. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, my first thing is we 10 don't have any members that are official -- any people here 11 that are official members of the committee right now. It 12 says -- the I.L.A. says they shall be named by Commissioners 13 Court and City Council, so -- so therefore -- and so I also 14 said to Ilse, "What do we do, Ilse?" She said we have to 15 meet and then do it post facto, City Council and 16 Commissioners Court. I said okay. You know, Letz and Moser 17 are on it, and -- and Jack and Carson are on it, and so we 18 probably ought to do that if we're going to have -- if it's 19 going to be in the I.L.A. We can also take it out of the 20 I.L.A. You know, we can modify the interlocal agreement that 21 we don't even need to have these meetings. 22 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: I think it was -- 23 MAYOR PRATT: Well, the City -- the City officially 24 has people; that's Carson and I. That is official, okay? 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. On the planning 5 1 committee? 2 MAYOR PRATT: On the planning committee. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 4 MAYOR PRATT: So that is correct, what I just said. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 6 MR. KING: And the Airport Board does too; it's me 7 and Kirk. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The County -- 9 MR. KING: And we actually -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have the liaisons. At one 11 point, I was on the planning committee. I remember meeting 12 with Wampler when he was mayor, but I think -- 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I was on the board. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Bill was the other -- so 15 we -- we probably need to clarify that -- that point. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 17 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: Actually, Tom, you may be the 18 only one for Commissioners Court to take action on it. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Could be. 20 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: Jack and I are, and then -- 21 'cause that's from the inception. And just for the -- you 22 know, what you're talking about with the meetings, from what 23 I -- my perception is that Bruce, every quarter, when it 24 comes time for a meeting, says, "Is there anything on the 25 agenda?" 6 1 MR. KING: Yeah. 2 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: And if there's nothing, we 3 don't have a meeting. 4 MR. KING: I think that's the perfect way to handle 5 it. 6 MAYOR PRATT: Yeah, that's what we've been doing. 7 MR. KING: Okay. So it's not like we're just 8 ignoring them. If anybody has anything -- and I think -- 9 like I say, I think it's been sort of helped out by the fact 10 that people have gotten a little more responsive to putting 11 stuff on the agenda for our monthly meetings. 12 MAYOR PRATT: That's what I -- 13 MR. KING: Monthly agendas. 14 MAYOR PRATT: That's what I -- what we've been 15 doing in the last couple years, is -- is not waiting until we 16 need a planning committee meeting. 17 MR. KING: Exactly. 18 MAYOR PRATT: It's taken up at the -- in the 19 regular monthly meeting. 20 MR. KING: But this is a perfect opportunity, I 21 think, to discuss something like this topic, is in planning 22 committee. I mean, this is much better than taking it to a 23 regular meeting and, you know, taking up two hours of that 24 meeting with -- 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: The reason this was revived is 7 1 because the City suggested the City Council and County 2 Commissioners meet together as two bodies, and -- and that 3 looked like it was going to be complicated to do, to get 4 everybody there, to get on the same page and be a public -- 5 you know, whatever. So I said -- I happened to run across 6 the I.L.A. and the planning committee; I said, "Why don't we 7 do it that way?" 8 MR. KING: That's fine. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So that's the reason it 10 resurfaced. If you -- since I threw this agenda out, if we 11 could go to the last one, I think that's the most significant 12 thing, is to make sure we get the process and procedures 13 agreed to on the roof repairs. 14 MR. KING: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay? Now, this is something 16 that I don't think that we have -- it was at the Airport 17 Board meeting the other day, and the City sent a copy over. 18 I looked at it, sent some comments back yesterday. I don't 19 know if everybody has a copy of that or not. 20 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: I've got one. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Yeah, Jonathan and I 23 looked at it yesterday and had a couple of changes. The 24 intent -- I think we agree with most everything that's in 25 there. But the intent is to do this in -- and more for 8 1 Mooney -- Barry's here, is -- is to make sure we do 2 everything we can do to expedite this repair process. Okay? 3 So -- and in so doing, we say, "Well, there's a couple things 4 that we might want to do." And one of them was if everybody 5 has a copy, it's under -- under Mooney International 6 designates a project manager. Well, that's fine. And we 7 suggested instead of the Joint Airport Board approving who 8 the project manager is -- you haven't had a special 9 meeting -- you could just have a designee from the Airport 10 Board to -- to approve who that project manager is. 11 MR. KING: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: As a change. And the same way 13 with Joint Airport Board approving the contract. Just have a 14 designee, okay, do that. So that was a couple of suggested 15 changes. 16 MR. KING: We have two people; we have Kirk and 17 Corey on our committee. They're the ones that actually are 18 picking the -- 19 MAYOR PRATT: Yeah, that's the designees. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the designees. 21 MR. KING: Those two guys. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, you -- so you give them 23 authority, and we can roll. 24 MAYOR PRATT: Yeah, and that's already been done. 25 So, the wording changes -- 9 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's fine. 2 MAYOR PRATT: -- don't matter. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's fine. But it does 4 matter; it says Joint Airport Board does it. 5 MR. KING: I think he's saying we -- 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So let's don't call a board -- 7 have a board meeting to make approval. If they designate 8 them to do it, then it's done. 9 MR. KING: That's fine. Do y'all have a problem 10 with that? 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: The other thing which I 12 thought, and I got a response from Todd, is that -- is the 13 inspections by the City. Review the plans and do the 14 inspections. And that can take some time, okay, to do. And 15 I think when you look at the -- the example being the other 16 day when it rained and, I mean, shut down 25 percent of their 17 operations because of water being in the facility, you know, 18 you got 85 people, 90 people there probably today. That's a 19 big impact. So, if there's some way we could accelerate, 20 expedite the inspection and review process, because of the 21 potential damage it is to -- to this super important facility 22 and business in the city, that's what we'd like to do. We 23 were suggesting, you know, 48 hours to look at reviewing 24 plans, and 24 hours for inspections. 25 MAYOR PRATT: Tom, all through this whole process 10 1 on the job with Mooney, the City has put a high priority on 2 expediency, and -- and that is not going to slow down; that's 3 going to continue. But there are circumstances beyond our 4 control or your control or anybody else's that putting in 5 that 48 hours is not acceptable, because we don't know what's 6 going to happen. But everybody has our commitment, and we've 7 shown that -- 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 9 MAYOR PRATT: -- over the last couple months, that 10 we're going to give it a high priority. 11 MR. TITAS: Could the language say "expedited 12 review" or something like that? 13 MAYOR PRATT: Well -- 14 MR. KING: How many times do the plans got to get 15 looked at? 16 MAYOR PRATT: Well, it depends. If the plans come 17 in -- 18 MR. KING: After they're approved the first time. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The inspection -- plans aren't, 20 but the inspection. 21 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: Just one time. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: One time. 23 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: They'll be looked at one time, 24 then approved. 25 MAYOR PRATT: Well, let me -- hold on just a 11 1 minute. The plans may be looked at more than one time if 2 they come in and they're insufficient. 3 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: Right. One time for approval. 4 MAYOR PRATT: Once they're approved, that's one 5 thing. 6 MR. KING: So, now we're just -- 7 MAYOR PRATT: I mean, if they're resubmitted, 8 that's another thing, so -- 9 MR. KING: And I can understand your concern. I 10 mean, on the plans, you know, I think it's going to -- 11 obviously, if you guys are on top of it, they're going to 12 approve those plans as quick as they can get them approved. 13 MAYOR PRATT: Absolutely. 14 MR. KING: I don't think it's any different than 15 the T-hangar plans. We tried to get those approved as quick 16 as we could, 'cause we're under a deadline there, and it 17 ended up taking a little longer, but I believe part of that 18 was our -- 19 MAYOR PRATT: They had to go back and be redone. 20 MR. KING: That was our fault, Bruce? 21 MR. McKENZIE: Once we turned those plans in, 22 Dieter turned them around in eight days. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, but, see, eight days -- 24 MR. McKENZIE: There was that situation -- 25 MR. KING: This is roof repair. I mean, I don't 12 1 know that we're not -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I trust the City. My 3 concern is because of the buildings overall, that the city 4 inspections are going to be limited to the roof only; that 5 we're not going to be looking and all of a sudden see a water 6 pipe that needs to be fixed, or see an electrical line they 7 want fixed. That -- I mean, it needs to be -- we can end up 8 with a whole lot more required to get that building to city 9 code. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: A bunch. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And so the -- it's just as 12 important to me that the -- and I think probably to Mooney, 13 that what they're looking at is basically the structural 14 integrity of the buildings to support a roof that'll work. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And the roof leaks, as a 16 matter of fact. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's a kind of weird 18 thing to ask the City to do, because they're supposed to kind 19 of look at stuff, but we don't want to look at certain 20 things. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: The proposed -- 22 MAYOR PRATT: Well, that's not going to happen, 23 Jonathan. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So you're going to be 25 looking -- 13 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Hey, Jack, the proposed change 2 was construction subject to revised inspection by the City of 3 Kerrville. This is to delineate an applicable city code for 4 roof repairs. So, just limited to roof repairs. Don't open 5 up the whole facility to all of your codes. 6 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: I think that's all the City's 7 interested in. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, let's just put it in 9 here. 10 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: I think you've done that, 11 where you said "delineated." 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a 13 change. 14 MR. KING: I don't think -- I've talked to the code 15 guy a couple of times about different buildings over there, 16 and they're -- and they're pretty much -- you know, these are 17 grandfathered in. Those buildings are all grandfathered, 18 unless you change the use of the building. I mean, pretty 19 much, if you -- you change the use of the building, then it 20 becomes a code situation. 21 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: Correct. 22 MR. KING: But if you don't change the use of the 23 building, he told me, "I can give you a C.O. on one of those 24 old buildings over there tomorrow." 25 MAYOR PRATT: Provided you don't change the 14 1 purpose. 2 MR. KING: If you don't change the use of that 3 building. So I don't think that -- I think what -- your 4 language you're talking about there, you know, that they just 5 stick to the roof, is probably -- 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right, okay. 7 MR. KING: I think that's probably what they'll do 8 anyway. 9 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: That was the intention. We 10 don't have any exception to that. 11 MAYOR PRATT: Other than -- other than that, if, in 12 the construction of the roof or the repair of it, that 13 they -- in the taking down of the roof -- let's use that as 14 an example -- they break a pipe or they cut an electrical 15 line or something like that, then that has to be reinspected. 16 So, some -- 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 18 MAYOR PRATT: You know, we're going to have to do 19 that. So you don't want to say you can't go look at that and 20 be in a contract, and we really have to -- 21 MR. KING: I think that's considered under the 22 construction of the roof. 23 MAYOR PRATT: I understand that. So that -- 24 MR. KING: I think that's part of it, that if 25 they're constructing the roof and they have to tear down part 15 1 of a support structure that -- that supports of the roof, 2 then obviously, you know, then they're going to inspect the 3 work to be -- that's brought that back up to where you're 4 putting the roof on. 5 MAYOR PRATT: Absolutely, and that's my point. 6 MR. KING: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. So, in summary, we said 8 Airport Board's going to have a designee to do that. The 9 City's going to look at the codes relative to roof 10 inspections and associated changes, okay, limited to that, so 11 you're going to do all you can on expediting the inspection 12 and review of plans. That is the only comments we had. 13 MR. KING: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, good. I think we're 15 good to go on that. 16 MR. KING: All right. So -- 17 MAYOR PRATT: Only thing we do have a problem with, 18 we're not going to put the hour limit on there. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's what I said. 20 MAYOR PRATT: I just want to make sure, because you 21 have it in writing, and now you're removing that. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I'm removing it. 23 MAYOR PRATT: Okay. 24 MR. KING: I think there will be enough -- there'll 25 be enough -- there's enough out in the public about this 16 1 project, and we see letters to the Editor all the time about 2 it, and I think there's enough in the public that I think 3 that once the work is started, I believe that the emphasis 4 will be on getting it finished, getting the thing finished. 5 I think the City will probably help us out on that as much as 6 they can. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 8 MR. KING: What -- the question -- I was talking to 9 Barry earlier before the meeting, and I want to be clear. I 10 want to be clear that Mooney is agreeing -- there's nothing 11 in this thing that says this, but Mooney is agreeing to take 12 on the responsibility -- they're going to have the option, I 13 guess, Barry, is what you're saying? If our bids come back 14 at more than a million dollars. Which I -- 15 MR. HODKIN: Well, we're working on maybe a naive 16 assumption right now. 17 MR. KING: Okay. 18 MR. HODKIN: Our preferred vendor and roofing 19 solution, -- 20 MR. KING: Yeah. 21 MR. HODKIN: -- we've had that requoted, and it's 22 coming in at 1.1 million. 23 MAYOR PRATT: 1.1? 24 MR. KING: Right. 25 MR. HODKIN: It was a million six months ago, so 17 1 it's gone up 5 percent, basically. So, we are accepting that 2 we have to pay the .1. 3 MR. KING: Okay. 4 MR. HODKIN: Now, if your contractor -- or 5 consultant should come back and say, "Well this needs to be 6 done, this needs to be done, we don't like this, change 7 this," and it goes to 1.5 or 1.6, then we're in a different 8 ballgame. I'm not sure we'd accept that situation, or be 9 able to accept that situation. 10 MR. KING: I understand. 11 MR. HODKIN: Financially or operationally. 12 MR. KING: Right. 13 MR. HODKIN: So, from a legalese point of view, I'm 14 not sure what needs to go into this document that reflects 15 that concern, but I just wanted to let you know that that 16 concern is out there. 17 MR. KING: I understand. 18 MR. HODKIN: To make a bigger example, if you 19 decide that the Hammer House has got to come down -- or your 20 consultant decides that the Hammer House has got to come 21 down, change the walls, change the steel, then we're looking 22 at two million bucks. Then we've got a major issue. But 23 that will be solved one way or the other, I guess, at the 24 time that the -- when the bids are accepted, the plans are 25 brought in. And if we don't like the plans, we're going to 18 1 have to say so at that point. A resolution will have to be 2 come up with. 3 MR. KING: As the process -- hopefully, somebody 4 can explain to me that process. Our consultant, what -- what 5 weight does his -- his $100,000 study we're getting, what 6 weight does his study have to do with Mooney? 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It's in here. 8 MR. KING: I mean, do they have to accept his -- do 9 they have to accept his scope of work that he feels like 10 should be done? 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think the way this is in 12 here -- 13 MR. KING: 'Cause that's the way it's sounding to 14 me. They've already got a bid; they're happy with the bid, 15 and they have someone already to fix the roofs. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Here it is. 17 MR. KING: I'm trying to figure out what our 18 consultant is contributing to the situation, other than -- 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: The Airport Board consultant 20 evaluates the buildings. He -- he recommends -- he provides 21 recommendations for repairs, and he calculates estimates of 22 probable costs. So, he makes the -- makes recommendations. 23 He makes recommendations to the board, is the way I 24 understand it. 25 MR. KING: And then, basically, we give those 19 1 recommendations to Mooney, and then Mooney basically has the 2 option of taking those recommendations and throwing them in 3 the trash can, hiring a local roofer, and spending the money 4 to fix the buildings? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They have to use the 6 consultant. 7 MR. KING: Have to use the consultant? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The consultant's 9 specifications. They have to bid the consultant's 10 specifications. 11 MR. KING: Have to use the consultant's 12 specifications. So, if the specifications say to put this 13 roof on this building, this roof on this building, we don't 14 like this building over here, we think you're wasting money 15 over here by spending $250,000 on a roof that's -- that's 16 going to have a five-year life -- 17 MAYOR PRATT: I think, in reality, what you get 18 down to is -- is that if there's a difference -- disagreement 19 between the consultants and Mooney, the parties have to get 20 together and come to an agreement. 21 MR. KING: And where does it say that? 22 MAYOR PRATT: Well, we probably need to put that in 23 there. 24 MR. KING: I would assume we do. That's what I'm 25 getting at. That's what I'm getting at, is I don't see that 20 1 in the agreement. At this point, I see -- I see us providing 2 $100,000 for a consultant to come up with a very detailed 3 plan as to what they feel like, in their best -- in their 4 engineering and their company's experience, is to fix this -- 5 this facility over here, and us having no way -- and us -- I 6 would like to see a way for us to tie that to the repair 7 being done. In other words, it's kind of like the guy 8 saying, "Hey, I just looked at your car; all four of your 9 tires are no good. You need four brand-new tires," and me 10 going, "I really appreciate that, and I'm really happy that 11 you told me that, but I think I'm just going to get them all 12 plugged." I'm going to go out -- they're all flat. I'm 13 going to get all new plugs for $25, instead of spending 14 $3,000 for new tires. So, what is the point of -- where is 15 the -- where is the agreement between -- is there anywhere in 16 the agreement where it says that we -- the money we're 17 spending on this consultant is somewhat tied to the repairs? 18 MR. TITAS: Steve, I think the -- the whole reason 19 that we went with the consultant route is the Airport Board 20 was going to be the manager and the contractor for the 21 project. And as the dynamic has changed, and now Mooney will 22 be the actual -- they'll have the contract with the 23 contractor. I think the other question is -- is if they're 24 happy with the roof, as -- as the plan that they've 25 presented, do we even need the consultant? 21 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think the things -- 2 MR. GRIFFIN: Based on your first thing, the answer 3 is no. 4 MR. KING: I agree. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the difference is, 6 though -- 7 MR. GRIFFIN: First comment. 8 MAYOR PRATT: Well, the consultant was brought in, 9 or was -- the subject of a consultant was brought up because 10 of the integrity of the structure to hold the roof. 11 MR. GRIFFIN: Correct. 12 MAYOR PRATT: That's the reason we brought him in. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, no, it was more than 14 that. 15 MAYOR PRATT: Well, that's one of the reasons that 16 it arose. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It was the leaks, too. 18 MR. KING: I know why the consultant was brought 19 in. The City and County both asked for a consultant. We 20 didn't feel like we had anybody on our staff; the City didn't 21 have anybody on their staff, County didn't have anybody on 22 their staff that had experience with this type of roof 23 structure and this amount of roof structure to make a 24 decision on how to fix that roof. This is when we were going 25 to fix the roof. 22 1 MAYOR PRATT: That's exactly right. 2 MR. KING: That's why the consultant's being 3 brought in. I think there's a -- there's a point there that 4 Kirk has and that Jonas has, is I don't want us to spend 5 $100,000 on a consultant for basically something that's not 6 going to be put in place or used. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let me reread what's in here 8 for a consultant, okay? Joint Airport Board hires a 9 consultant, okay? He evaluates the buildings, which he's 10 going to do in the next couple weeks, provides 11 recommendations for repairs. That's recommendations, okay? 12 And he's going to calculate the probable costs. That's just 13 all -- "Here's my advice to you guys." Now, jumping down to 14 when construction comes along, it's subject -- construction 15 is subject to inspection and oversight by the consultant, 16 okay? And under that -- 17 MR. GRIFFIN: But that's -- 18 MR. KING: He doesn't like -- 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let me finish. Let me finish 20 under that. Insures compliance with the specifications that 21 he prepares, okay? 22 MR. KING: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: All right. Provides input and 24 recommendations on requested change orders. So, he's still 25 providing recommendations only. And then identify additional 23 1 change orders based upon field construction experience and 2 issues. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They also -- 4 MR. GRIFFIN: What you're assuming in that, Tom, is 5 that Mooney and their roofing contractor chooses to do 6 everything per the consultants, and that's where Steve's 7 coming from. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They don't get paid if they 9 don't. The consultant has to sign off on the drafts. 10 MR. GRIFFIN: So what you're saying -- 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: On the specs. 12 MR. GRIFFIN: So what you're saying is -- is that 13 then what Mooney has to do is they have to hire the right -- 14 a different -- and maybe a different roofing contractor, 15 because the one they have is -- is a certain type of roof. 16 And I guarantee -- can guarantee right now, with the 17 discussion I've had on the phone with these guys, they're not 18 coming back -- 19 MAYOR PRATT: Who's "these guys"? 20 MR. GRIFFIN: With our consultants. With our -- 21 MAYOR PRATT: Let's just make sure we know who 22 "these guys" are. 23 MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah. But the discussions we've had 24 to-date on the phone with these guys is that they're not 25 going to recommend putting a membrane roof on some of these 24 1 roofs. There are other options out there. And so what 2 you're saying with this document, Tom, the way that it's 3 written is -- is that Mooney has to accept that type of roof 4 and that type of application. And we know that there is 5 going to be -- we already know there's a 1.1 million dollar 6 hickey on the roof. And because these guys come back with a 7 recommendation, it may be different. It may be higher, may 8 be lower. But what you're now saying with this document is 9 that Barry has to go to his guys and live with whatever 10 recommendations -- 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I don't think it says that at 12 all. I think it's the consultant comes up with a set of 13 specifications, okay? It's not saying, "Here are the specs; 14 you have to live up to them." I think it says, "Here's what 15 we recommend." That's what the -- why the "recommend" is in 16 there. 17 MR. KING: It will -- 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So he'll recommend the specs. 19 Then I think if Mooney doesn't agree with that, the board -- 20 if the City and County don't agree with that, then okay, 21 we'll -- we'll negotiate something else. 22 MR. KING: And it says that -- 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It may be a simple thing for 24 one building; may bring the cost down. But I don't think it 25 says -- I don't think it gives the consultant the authority 25 1 as a project manager, "You will do it this way." 2 MAYOR PRATT: I think -- I think that if Mooney and 3 the consultants can't come to an agreement, it comes back to 4 the Airport Board, 'cause they're the representatives of the 5 two owners. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Sure. 7 MAYOR PRATT: Doesn't need to come back to the City 8 or County, okay. So I want to -- 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 10 MAYOR PRATT: I want to kind of change the way you 11 said that. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Well, it's important -- 13 what's important is that we agree on what this says. That's 14 not a trivial little thing. 15 MR. GRIFFIN: About a third of the way down the 16 first page, it says work -- and all iterations of this thing 17 have had this sentence in it that's been causing me a little 18 bit of pain, is, "Work includes roofing for all Mooney 19 facilities, including Building 18." 20 MAYOR PRATT: The word "included" was changed to 21 "plus." 22 MR. GRIFFIN: Well, even in that case, we own 23 Building 18. And what we're saying is -- is that in this 24 project, the scope of work requires that Building 18 get 25 repaired. And are we putting -- are we expecting Mooney to 26 1 -- I'm not going to put words in your mouth. 2 MR. HODKIN: We ain't paying for this. 3 MR. GRIFFIN: We're going to expect them to do it? 4 Or you -- 5 MAYOR PRATT: That was -- 6 MR. GRIFFIN: You guys, the City and the County, 7 are saying, "We agree that we've got to fix this roof," or 8 there may be roof repairs, and you guys are already -- and 9 you guys, at this point in time on the 18th of June, are 10 saying, "We'll pony up and pay for it." 11 MAYOR PRATT: No. What we're saying is -- is that 12 the -- the concept here, and the scope of work for the 13 consultant was to evaluate Building 18. The rest of the 14 buildings plus Building 18, or including 18. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: This is for construction also, 16 not just consultant. 17 MAYOR PRATT: I understand that, but we -- and 18 then -- and in a previous meeting that we had, it was 19 discussed that -- that there be a separate cost set -- 20 MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. 21 MAYOR PRATT: -- on 18. 22 MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. Well, right now, the 100 -- 23 the 100K in the proposal that we're going to discuss on 24 Friday with you guys doesn't have Building 18 in it. I can 25 tell you that. 27 1 MAYOR PRATT: Okay. 2 MR. GRIFFIN: We specifically took it out, because 3 we felt that this package should include only the stuff that 4 affects Mooney. 5 MAYOR PRATT: Yeah, but see, the -- it's what 6 affects the City and County, because they're the owners of 7 the building. 8 MR. GRIFFIN: Well, but this roof -- 9 MAYOR PRATT: No, but if we got somebody else -- 10 'cause this was discussed in the previous meeting, 'cause I 11 made that point. If -- if we got somebody else that wants to 12 occupy Building 18, then we have to go through this process 13 again, and it's a lot cheaper to have it done now in this 14 evaluation than to bring somebody out here separately. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, Jack, this -- the 16 subject of this is Mooney Aircraft manufacturing facilities. 17 MAYOR PRATT: Well, you -- there's something else 18 you put in that. This is -- 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I didn't; it's from the City. 20 MAYOR PRATT: We'll just say joint-owned buildings. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's what we're doing. 22 MR. GRIFFIN: Well, but if that's the case, I can't 23 exclude the paint hangar or -- 24 MAYOR PRATT: That's the reason we were exclusively 25 saying "plus Building 18." We didn't say 17, which is the 28 1 paint hangar. 2 MR. GRIFFIN: No, 17 is the office building. 3 MR. McKENZIE: Paint hangar is 19. 4 MAYOR PRATT: 19, I'm sorry. 5 MR. GRIFFIN: So, where I'm going is the -- the 6 100K that you guys authorized us -- well, that we're 7 actually, next week -- that we discussed when we brought our 8 budget to you, that we're actually coming and asking for the 9 money next week, that 100K does -- was not -- the intent 10 behind that 100K was not to look at other facilities on this 11 airport. The intent behind that 100K was to fix the problem 12 that exists at Mooney. 13 MAYOR PRATT: But y'all decided to take that out? 14 MR. GRIFFIN: We took it out of -- we took it out 15 of the -- the consulting engineering guy's efforts, because 16 -- well, because we had to negotiate down from a number that 17 they had proposed to us that was more than 100K. We knew 18 what we were getting. 19 MAYOR PRATT: Well, our whole -- our whole point 20 was -- is that this whole process is the assets of the City 21 and County. 22 MR. GRIFFIN: Absolutely. 23 MAYOR PRATT: Okay. 24 MR. GRIFFIN: Absolutely. 25 MAYOR PRATT: And we want to know about what needs 29 1 to be done to 18 so that we can find somebody to lease it. 2 MR. GRIFFIN: I need to know what's wrong with 19 3 as well as so I can lease it. 4 MAYOR PRATT: That's fine. 5 MR. GRIFFIN: I mean, I've got other buildings on 6 the airport property that I need to look at to see if we can 7 do something with. And it happens to be -- the old paint 8 hangar happens to be 19, but it could even be Building 17. 9 You now, we're assuming that Building 17 needs to come down 10 because of other things, but we haven't had a consultant go 11 in and say, "Yea, verily, this thing could be salvaged had 12 you could use it." 13 MAYOR PRATT: But Building 17 is included in this. 14 MR. GRIFFIN: No, it's not. 15 MAYOR PRATT: It's not? Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let's separate the variables. 17 Let's take anything -- let's -- 18 MR. GRIFFIN: Outside the fence. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let's look at what the 20 consulting agreement -- these buildings are -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a question on these X's. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 23 MR. GRIFFIN: You got a question on the X's? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why are they excluded? 25 MAYOR PRATT: That's -- 30 1 MR. GRIFFIN: The reason that we excluded them was 2 because if you take Mooney's original proposal for the 3 membrane roof, these buildings were excluded. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do they leak and do they need 5 to be fixed? 6 MR. GRIFFIN: Barry doesn't know which buildings 7 you're talking about. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Talking about the delivery 9 center. 10 MR. GRIFFIN: The delivery center and this right 11 there. 12 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 13 MR. KING: It cost $138,000 to do this. We're 14 trying to get this -- I mean -- 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Trying to get down to 100,000. 16 MR. KING: I'd like to get it down, now that I know 17 how much they may not be of any value. 18 MR. GRIFFIN: Well, that's another proposal. 19 MR. HODKIN: I'd have to go back and check, but I'm 20 not -- I believe that all these buildings you've got here 21 with red X's, with the exception of maybe the sales building, 22 are included in the 1.1 million we're looking at. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: They are included. 24 MAYOR PRATT: That was our point. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: They are. 31 1 MR. HODKIN: So that's included. 2 MR. GRIFFIN: We based that on -- I think I've got 3 a piece of paper that shows those weren't included in the 4 membrane roofing concept. 5 MR. HODKIN: Well, I may be wrong. I need to go 6 back -- 7 MR. GRIFFIN: That's where I got that, that Monday 8 we met over there and walked through the facility. 9 MR. HODKIN: The -- I do -- I know that the guard 10 shack -- 11 MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah, the guard shack. 12 MR. HODKIN: But these buildings down here I 13 thought were included. I may be mistaken, but I thought were 14 included. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And they leak. 16 MAYOR PRATT: Yeah. 17 MR. HODKIN: Now, as far as 17, 18, and 19 are 18 concerned, then -- well, they're your buildings, obviously, 19 but 17, in my judgment, does need to come down. It's just 20 mold everywhere. 21 MAYOR PRATT: That was the reason we didn't include 22 it when we added plus 18. 23 MR. HODKIN: That's the new hangar, I guess, and 24 that's -- I don't know that that leaks too badly. But -- and 25 then 19, I don't believe that leaks. 32 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, it looks like -- 2 MR. HODKIN: From a pure leaking point of view, but 3 whether the building is any good is a different -- 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Looks like as we move forward 5 on this process, if we take -- Jack, if we take 18 out of 6 there, okay, then it keeps it to Mooney facility. Then we've 7 got the thing with the -- with the consultant, and the others 8 on these three things. 9 MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. And I -- 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Get that under a separate -- 11 MR. GRIFFIN: I have a feeling adding these three 12 buildings is not going to be a great extensive cost. Now, 13 the way -- 14 MAYOR PRATT: That is what we discussed earlier. 15 MR. GRIFFIN: I don't want to change the subject, 16 but we'll talk about this Friday. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So if we can take this 18 statement in here, "plus Building 18" out, I -- 19 MR. GRIFFIN: I think that that's good, because -- 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, see if Jack agrees. 21 MR. GRIFFIN: That's what I'm saying. Since I 22 brought it up, -- 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Sure. 24 MR. GRIFFIN: -- I think that's my point here, as 25 long as we're talking about the Mooney Aircraft manufacturing 33 1 facilities. The rest of the buildings on the site that are 2 co-owned, that's a different subject. But because of this 3 title, I don't want to have Building 18 -- 4 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: I think there's a way to 5 achieve both. Jack is right in that when the consultant is 6 out here doing the work and considering all this, it would be 7 cheaper to add other buildings to it, but it doesn't need to 8 be part of this agreement. 9 MR. GRIFFIN: That's fine, yes. 10 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: We can have a separate 11 contract with the consultant than we do with this agreement. 12 MR. GRIFFIN: Agreed. 13 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: The consultant's contract 14 would be such that we have an option to add at the time that 15 they're out here doing all this work. 16 MR. GRIFFIN: Right. 17 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: Investigative stuff. Add this 18 and get a genuine idea of the cost, and not include it in the 19 document -- 20 MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. 21 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: -- you guys are talking about. 22 Something I wanted to address, the way I see this, 'cause I 23 asked the same question to Todd back when this conversation 24 started, was why -- why the consultant? And maybe it was 25 kind of adding my input as Todd and I were both questioning 34 1 that. The way I look at it, if the City/County are going to 2 spend a million dollars, we want to know we're spending it in 3 the right way. And as a contractor, you know, I'm not an 4 engineer; I'm not a licensed professional for, you know, 5 roofing and whatnot. And so Mooney, you guys -- Barry, you 6 may be absolutely right, and it may be that the contractor to 7 replace the roof was the best solution for the best price. 8 But he may also be wrong, because he's the guy who does 9 mostly a type of roof, and it's in his best interest to do 10 that type of roof, and that's what his bid was. We need a 11 consultant to provide some security to know how we're 12 spending the money, and it may be that it's not the best use 13 of money, especially if the consultant comes back and says, 14 "Well, you just paid me 100 grand; I want you to do exactly 15 what the guy told you to," and he didn't charge anything. 16 However, they may also come back and say, "You need to use 17 different kinds of systems." Part of what they're doing for 18 us is to get all the work done and to recommend the budget, 19 and that's going to vary -- well, I would imagine what they 20 will do is give advice as to what kind of roofing system is 21 better for different areas, and so it's just -- it would be 22 difficult, as a public entity spending taxpayer money, to go 23 out and take a contractor's word that that's the best way to 24 do it -- or their opinion, I mean. And so it's a necessary 25 part of government contracting, is to get a consultant 35 1 involved to give their expert opinion as to what needs to be 2 done, and so that's the necessity for the $100,000. 3 MR. KING: I agree 100 percent. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 10 percent's not out of line 5 for the cost of this project. 6 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: Correct. We would never -- 7 MR. GRIFFIN: What they're proposing in there -- in 8 that 100K -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One question. In the 10 agreement -- thank you, Carson, for saying that. But we were 11 talking a lot about the leaking, but I know the -- one of the 12 advantages from the sales guy for the membrane roof is that 13 it also adds some insulation value, which stops the dripping 14 down the -- 15 MR. GRIFFIN: And they're taking -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does -- is that covered in here 17 as well, the condensation issue? 18 MR. GRIFFIN: Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I've looked through it, 20 but I haven't read through the details you have. 21 MR. GRIFFIN: It's not -- it's not included in the 22 words, because they haven't done their report yet, but it'll 23 be included in the report as to the recommendations and the 24 pluses or minuses on trying to get the R-value up in the roof 25 to stop the condensation on the bottoms. 36 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, going to come back with a 2 -- you know, an analysis of the problem. 3 MR. GRIFFIN: And the discussion, yes. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then at that point, it'll 5 be a -- 6 MR. GRIFFIN: We have -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- a two-way or three-way 8 consultant, Mooney and Airport Board people figuring out 9 what's the best option within -- to get it done for a million 10 dollars. 11 MR. GRIFFIN: Yes. 12 MR. KING: And we've also asked them -- I know Kirk 13 and Corey talked with them about -- we've also asked them, 14 you know, what is the priority of some of these buildings? 15 In other words, this building over here doesn't -- has a few 16 small leaks in it, or is something like the -- you know, 17 maybe some, but it's not used for manufacturing. Maybe, you 18 know, it's just -- you know, so we've asked them for some 19 priority on, you know, what the -- this building over here is 20 obviously the manufacturing building; it can't leak, you 21 know. We need to fix all of this one here. But -- you know, 22 so that we can kind of see where the money can be spent. So, 23 if there's a million dollars available or whatever, you know, 24 that we can kind of have a -- a little -- 25 MR. GRIFFIN: And that's part of their review that 37 1 they're going to do when they go through and review the 2 building, is get with the Mooney guys and say, "Okay, what's 3 -- what's your priority on this building versus this 4 building?" 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We may be able to insulate 6 and -- 7 MR. GRIFFIN: May be able to do something here 8 short-term. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But not going to insulate all 10 of them, maybe. 11 MR. KING: We've also asked them about term. You 12 know, we don't -- my worst fear is we spend -- I don't want 13 to spend five -- I don't want to spend $100,000 on something 14 that's going to be good for three years that they say it's -- 15 the roof's going to be great, but the rest of the building 16 looks like it may fall down in the next three years. 17 MAYOR PRATT: One of the criteria that we gave the 18 consultant was that we wanted a 15-plus-year warranty. 19 MR. KING: Yeah. 20 MR. GRIFFIN: Right. 21 MR. TITAS: On the roof. 22 MAYOR PRATT: 15-year plus. 15 to 20. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That came out of the bid. 24 MR. HODKIN: Can I -- 25 MR. KING: Yeah, Barry. Sure. 38 1 MR. HODKIN: The reason -- there is another 2 important aspect for Mooney, and this as well operationally. 3 The -- one of the reasons we chose this particular consultant 4 was -- I've said this to one or two of you. 5 MAYOR PRATT: Talking about the contractor? 6 MR. HODKIN: Contractor. Our preferred contractor 7 right now, is that basically what they're doing -- in my 8 terms, not engineering terms -- is putting a sheet over the 9 roof. That has no -- causes no disruption whatsoever to 10 Mooney's operation. If the consultant comes back and says we 11 got to take the Hammer House roof off, and we've got it 12 patched now, or you've got to do this structural change or 13 this structural change, then that could well cause 14 operational difficulties for us. 15 MR. KING: Sure. 16 MR. HODKIN: So my personal preference would be to 17 get the consultant to critique our contractor. 18 MR. KING: Right. 19 MR. GRIFFIN: And they will. 20 MR. HODKIN: And, therefore, he starts with 21 something that he can critique and say, "We can do this 22 better or this cheaper." 23 MR. KING: Yeah. 24 MR. HODKIN: Rather than starting again looking at 25 the roofing. 39 1 MR. GRIFFIN: And, Barry, that's the way they 2 approached it. 3 MR. HODKIN: And I would have thought that would be 4 less than 100,000, to be honest. 5 MR. KING: And they will. They'll -- 6 MR. GRIFFIN: That 100,000 includes -- that's not 7 just -- the 100,000 doesn't just include the review process. 8 MAYOR PRATT: It's the turnkey. 9 MR. GRIFFIN: It's the turnkey piece. 10 MR. HODKIN: Including all the rest of the project? 11 MR. GRIFFIN: Yes. 12 MR. KING: They're going to go all the way through 13 until the thing is completely finished, Barry. That takes 14 them all the way through. 15 MR. GRIFFIN: So, the review process, and it's in 16 this document, is roughly 26K or something, so that's -- 17 MR. KING: You got to understand, when y'all 18 involve Mooney in this thing, it looks -- don't forget, the 19 perception is -- is Mooney is not paying for any of this; you 20 guys are paying for it. The City and County are still paying 21 for the roof. You guys have just opted to bring Mooney into 22 the repair part of it, so I think it should be very clear 23 that the million dollars is coming from the City and the 24 County. So, as an Airport Board member, I -- you know, I 25 think I have a -- as a taxpayer, I have a -- I'm kind of like 40 1 Carson; I want to see what that million dollars is spent on. 2 I'm not going to give it to the guy in the playground over 3 here and say, "Hey, go buy this or do whatever, and tell me 4 what you got back." You know, I want to see where the 5 money's spent. I want it spent in the right places, and I 6 want -- I want us to have some sort of control over that. 7 Now, if Mooney would like to spend a million dollars, they'd 8 like to put up the million dollars and spend it on the roof 9 without us having any say about it, that'd be fine; I don't 10 care. Y'all go spend a million dollars, throw a tarp over 11 the top of it or whatever; that would be the deal. But under 12 this situation, with the airport basically managing the City 13 and the County's money, you know, we have to have some sort 14 of -- that's what this consultant is for, is our control over 15 where this money is spent. 16 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: It's an independent third 17 party. 18 MR. KING: A third party. 19 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: Just like you would do -- 20 would do an inspection. 21 MR. HODKIN: And Mooney accepts that. 22 MR. KING: Corey said when he talked to a few of 23 these -- one of the guys who bid on this thing, a lot of 24 them -- and even our consultant, when he first looked at it, 25 a lot of them, they do this stuff with -- they do it with 41 1 satellites. They look at these roofs and stuff with 2 satellites to start with, and see what they look like and 3 everything. And -- you know, and after our consultant went 4 over there and looked at the -- at the buildings completely 5 to start with, just to come -- to give us a number, you know, 6 one of our biggest concerns after talking to him is we don't 7 want to throw good money after bad. I mean, I just don't 8 want to -- I mean, I just -- you don't want to throw $100,000 9 on this into something that's not worth $50,000. You know, 10 or it's going to -- you know, you tell me the Hammer House is 11 very important to you guys. Now, what part -- we've actually 12 had these discussions, Barry, is that we'd like to -- we'd 13 like to kind of get over there in the building, look at it, 14 and tell us what part of this building is of great importance 15 to you. You know, 'cause when I go over to that building, I 16 see a lot of the building nobody's even using. You know, 17 there's parts of it that are just sitting over here; no one's 18 -- there's no machines in it. You know, the big drop hammer 19 is in this part over here, and you -- you know, we might have 20 some -- some ways of -- after the consultant comes up with 21 his deal, we may have some ways of getting around some of 22 that, you know. I mean, I'd rather spend $200,000 or 23 $150,000 building another building than I would putting a 24 roof on a building that's going to be gone in five years, 25 over with in five years. So, I mean, that's something -- to 42 1 me, that's the Airport Board's -- one of their biggest 2 concerns they've always talked about is, you know, you got 3 buildings over there that are 60, 70 years old that, you 4 know, you're talking about fixing the roof on. He's like, 5 hey -- 6 MAYOR PRATT: You also have -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Still good. 8 MR. KING: And some of them are good buildings. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Some are pretty darn 10 good-looking still. 11 MAYOR PRATT: You have a situation where -- 12 buildings where they're next to each other; the roofs are 13 connected. You got one roof draining into another, two roofs 14 draining into a valley, and -- and the water's not going 15 where it should go. And so just putting a sheet over it 16 without fixing that too -- so the consultant will help us in 17 that. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I mean, I think -- it 19 sounds like, I mean, we're all on the same page. And -- and 20 Kirk and Corey will meet with the consultant and get all of 21 it, you know, worked out, it looks like. I mean, I think 22 everyone's fine. And then once the we get the report, Mooney 23 gets involved, and we say does the system -- the preferred 24 system work? But I think it does need to be in the document 25 also to minimize disruption of operations. 43 1 MR. KING: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a big part. 3 MR. GRIFFIN: That's -- this was our going-in 4 position with them. They realize that. And -- 5 MR. KING: And there needs to be -- 6 MAYOR PRATT: And they understood our priority. 7 MR. KING: I'm thinking that in that document, 8 there's got to be some stop point in here. There's got to be 9 some point where it runs up against, and there's a -- there's 10 a conflict between Mooney and the consultant, 'cause there's 11 got to be a stop point there where we have a way to fall back 12 and say okay, you know, the Airport Board needs to meet with 13 Mooney and the consultant; we need to get together and to 14 move forward. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think that's probably -- I 16 think it is. 17 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: Let me ask a question about 18 something else in here. I know when we're talking about 19 trying to expedite city review and inspections and things in 20 terms of days, we've got 90 days. Construction will start 21 within 90 days of the determination of the project 22 specifications. What happens in that 90-day period, and why 23 is that so lengthy? 24 MR. GRIFFIN: Well, we're -- 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It says "within." 'Cause I 44 1 wanted to make it 30; we said 30's within 90, so leave it 2 alone. 3 MR. GRIFFIN: What that's really entailing, I 4 think, too, is if we have to go with a different system than 5 this membrane that they've already got these guys kind of 6 signed up to do, if -- if we go with some other type of 7 system, we may have to go find a new contractor. That's that 8 90 days. 9 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: So that's what I was getting 10 at, is there's a bid process that may -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mooney would do it. 12 MR. GRIFFIN: Mooney would do it. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It won't be a formal bid 14 process. It will be Mooney going out in the marketplace and 15 finding someone to do it. 16 MR. GRIFFIN: What I really envision after talking 17 with these guys, seeing as they may come back on Building X 18 and say, "Building X would be better treated if we did this 19 type of roof system to it." 20 MAYOR PRATT: Which is different than what the 21 contractor -- 22 MR. GRIFFIN: And these guys have also, in our 23 phone discussions, have made some indications that there may 24 be some options that are cheaper on some of these buildings 25 than this membrane idea. So, therefore, you know, it would 45 1 behoove Mooney to go look at that, because it's going to save 2 them, you know, several hundred thousand dollars or 3 something, maybe. 4 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It doesn't save them; it allows 6 them to use the million dollars for other purposes. 7 MR. GRIFFIN: Well, it saves it on that building, 8 and you can use on it another building. 9 MR. KING: Right. 10 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: I'm just pointing out, I think 11 three months is more than enough time to go through the bid 12 process. 13 MR. GRIFFIN: More than enough, yes, sir. 14 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: That's what I would focus on. 15 I understand it says "within," and ideally, it would be far 16 less than that. But that's a place where you could keep it 17 down contractually. 18 MAYOR PRATT: I agree with Carson, okay. And you 19 can change that 90 days, 'cause at the end of it, it says 90 20 days of the determination of the project specifications. The 21 specifications aren't going to be issued until the 22 contractor's done all the things you were talking about, and 23 Mooney too. So, that 90 days -- 24 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: The only thing that can happen 25 after that is award the bid, award the subcontract, and then 46 1 mobilization of the site. And the whole process, when you 2 see this play out -- you know, I know that roofers generally 3 this time of year are very busy because they're doing a lot 4 of school work, trying to cram a lot of work in the summer 5 because the schools are down, but that all takes place by the 6 first of August, mid-August, so our time frame falls in 7 pretty well when this plays out. I can't imagine they're 8 going to need that long to mobilize. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I can't either. 10 MR. GRIFFIN: These weren't our words, but that's 11 why I assume those were in there. So I'm not -- 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You guys put that in there. 13 MR. GRIFFIN: You guys negotiate what you guys feel 14 it is. 15 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: I think we're all trying to -- 16 MR. GRIFFIN: I'm not sure you need to put a 90-day 17 in there. 18 MAYOR PRATT: I don't think that -- 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: "Construction will start as 20 soon as possible." 21 MR. GRIFFIN: As soon as possible. 22 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: I would even make an 23 additional recommendation to the consultant. We can hammer 24 this out later with that, but part of the evaluation period 25 is that from -- whether they're looking at one contractor, 47 1 negotiating with them, or get -- they're getting bids, that 2 part of that process be when they can get to the site and 3 begin work, because that's how we bid work if it's a critical 4 start date, is make them, along with their bid, make a 5 commitment as to when they will begin working. Because if 6 time is of the essence, then this should be part of the 7 consideration and evaluation. 8 MR. GRIFFIN: Well, and again, I hate to point away 9 from us, but that's up to Mooney to do that, because -- 10 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: Okay. 11 MR. GRIFFIN: -- they're going to be the ones 12 that -- 13 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: Well, part of this is just 14 sharing -- 15 MR. GRIFFIN: I agree with what you're saying, but 16 we don't -- if Mooney's going out getting the bids, then 17 that's part of their take. 18 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: You're right. 19 MR. GRIFFIN: They're realizing that with their 20 contractor. 21 MAYOR PRATT: It's their time frame. 22 MR. GRIFFIN: It's their time frame. 23 MR. HODKIN: That's fine, but I will just caution 24 you on two things. One is, we did go out for several bids on 25 different solutions, and the vast majority of folks -- some 48 1 folks didn't even bother to turn up to look, because it was 2 too big a job for them. Our preference would be to have one 3 contractor. 4 MR. GRIFFIN: Sure. 5 MR. HODKIN: Rather than trying to manage several 6 different contractors on several different solutions on 7 different buildings. That's going to be a complete pain, and 8 will be difficult to manage. 9 MAYOR PRATT: Yeah. 10 MR. HODKIN: So, I'm speculating here on something 11 I don't really know yet until I've seen the consultant's 12 report and recommendations. 13 MR. GRIFFIN: Exactly. 14 MR. HODKIN: So I'm not, certainly, sitting back -- 15 laying back and taking it, but likewise, I can't really 16 comment until I see the implications. 17 MAYOR PRATT: Well, I think -- 18 MR. GRIFFIN: That's fine. 19 MAYOR PRATT: -- that's fairly accurate, because I 20 can see where we're going to come back together somewhere in 21 the near future and say, "Hey, we need to discuss this more 22 in detail because now we have the consultant's report." 23 MR. HODKIN: Right, yeah. 24 MAYOR PRATT: So we haven't got this yet, so some 25 of this, we're talking about things that may not even happen, 49 1 because the consultant's work we don't have in-hand yet. 2 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: When is that due to us? 3 MR. GRIFFIN: We are meeting with them on Friday. 4 MAYOR PRATT: Two weeks after they evaluate Mooney. 5 MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah, and they plan on coming -- 6 it's -- from the time that we turn them on, it's a three-week 7 process. That's -- 8 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: When would that happen? They 9 could be -- 10 MR. GRIFFIN: It would be three weeks from Friday. 11 MR. McKENZIE: According to their schedule, they -- 12 it may be a few weeks before we get in the loop with those 13 guys. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kirk, a question I had. It 15 says in the agreement "owner." I'm sure this is a 16 boilerplate agreement they have. And "owner," is it going to 17 be defined as Airport Board? 18 MR. GRIFFIN: That's what we're going to talk about 19 on Friday. 20 MAYOR PRATT: Yeah, that's not today. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 22 MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause I don't think it should 24 be owners. 25 MAYOR PRATT: Well, let's discuss that on Friday. 50 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let's discuss that Friday. 2 That's a long discussion. 3 MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah. The short answer is, I think 4 as far as going and doing the survey and the review and 5 getting the report, the airport is the owner. After -- after 6 that, after that 26K, I don't know -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who the owner is. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 9 MAYOR PRATT: We just need to cover that on Friday. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 MR. KING: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Some of these others, Steve, 13 that I put in here are just for information and to make sure 14 we're all on the same page, like on the second bullet, status 15 of facility leases, including Mooney International. So, 16 everybody's got that. 17 MR. HODKIN: Can I just go back to this -- 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Oh, sure. I'm sorry. 19 MR. HODKIN: We moved off from this. Can I just go 20 back and mention a couple things? One is, every time I read 21 this, I see something, so forgive me, but it's Mooney 22 International heading, not Mooney Aircraft. The other point 23 I wanted to make was relative to the payment draws. 24 MR. KING: Mm-hmm. 25 MR. HODKIN: Contractor payment. Our current 51 1 preferred guy, in his quote, has requested basically half a 2 million dollars up front and half a million dollars after the 3 job is signed off. So, I'm presuming -- I'm sure so he can 4 buy materials. So, when it gets into retainage, I don't know 5 whether the board or its representatives will be happy with 6 that payment structure. So, I'm not sure the wording here 7 about retainage is something that is -- I know what the 8 intent is -- what your intent is, is not to be exposing 9 taxpayers' dollars. Fine. And I don't pay the final 10 builders until the job is complete and signed off. I 11 completely understand the intent. I'm not sure these words 12 will be reasonable for this project. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Barry, is the -- I presume this 14 is a relatively large contractor. I mean, I'm surprised that 15 they can't, for -- I don't know how long a project takes -- 16 two months, finance the materials. That's an unusual 17 request. 18 MR. HODKIN: We can go back and negotiate on what 19 these -- his quote, but I'm just saying to you there's a 20 large up-front, and then a large after-the-job. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The County -- 22 MR. HODKIN: Way more than 10 percent. 23 MAYOR PRATT: We're talking about 10 percent, or 24 $50,000, if you're looking at half-and-half. Your -- you 25 retain half before the -- 52 1 MR. TITAS: I think he's talking about the roof. 2 MAYOR PRATT: By retainage. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Retainage is, but the upfront 4 would be half a million. 5 MAYOR PRATT: And you retain 100 -- retain 50. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm more concerned about the 7 up-front. 8 MR. KING: I am too. 9 MAYOR PRATT: Yeah, me too. 10 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: Typically, you're going to 11 order materials from a vendor and supplier, and then if you 12 -- and it all varies depending on the time of the month, but 13 you're going to have to pay them the following month on what 14 those materials were brought to you, and you've submitted a 15 pay application and then been paid for that work. And so 16 you're not really -- you're not financing it for the duration 17 of the project, just a 30-day account which a roofer would 18 typically have. 19 MR. KING: Yeah. 20 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: But all of that said, you 21 know, part of what we have written in here is that they have 22 to be bonded and insured, and there's a bonding company who 23 will stand behind that they aren't going to walk off the job 24 and they're going to pay their vendors. And so -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, that's true. 53 1 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: -- that may be something that 2 we could -- I say may, but could negotiate on in terms of 3 material costs up front, or material draw or something, with 4 the idea that they're bonded. For example, the City 5 typically -- in real estate law, the City holds 10 percent 6 retainage, but almost all city contracts are done with 5 7 percent, because it's a bonded job. So, the necessity of 8 having retainage and always being ahead is not as great 9 because it's bonded. So, in that same light, there may be 10 some flexibility -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On payment and payment. 12 MAYOR PRATT: And if -- if we went up front like he 13 proposed, I'd want the bonding company to know that that's 14 happening, and that they approve of it. 15 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: Correct. 16 MAYOR PRATT: Okay. 17 MR. HODKIN: I'm not saying we need to, 'cause we 18 don't know what the contract's going to be; we don't know the 19 contractor, we don't know how many contractors. So, all I'm 20 trying to say is on this section where you're talking about 21 retainage, maybe be less specific, and just talk about the 22 final payment will be after the job is complete. And as part 23 of the, quote, agreement that I'm sure the board will want to 24 be part of, then we'll also have to agree to the payment 25 terms -- agree or disagree with the payment terms. So, 54 1 that's all I'm trying to say on that section. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Be less specific here at this 3 point. 4 MR. HODKIN: Right. Right. 5 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: Well, honestly, I think what's 6 more likely to happen, if I had to guess, would be that the 7 consultant, in their specifications -- in creating those 8 specs, part of that -- part of the specifications will be the 9 payment terms, along with the bonding and insurance 10 requirements. And so whoever submits a proposal on the 11 project is going to be agreeing to those terms, not the other 12 way around. 13 MAYOR PRATT: So, this -- this document here is not 14 a contract. 15 MR. HODKIN: No, it's a -- 16 MAYOR PRATT: It's not worded the way a contract 17 would be. 18 MR. HODKIN: It's a memorandum of understanding. 19 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: But, like -- you're right, 20 absolutely. But when the -- so we don't have to decide that 21 here and now, but we will need to decide this when the 22 consultant creates their specifications. 23 MR. HODKIN: Right. 24 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: And this will be done prior to 25 any bids being submitted, and that will be part of the deal. 55 1 MAYOR PRATT: Yeah. Good point. 2 MR. KING: Good point. 3 MR. HODKIN: So that was my final point on this 4 overall agreement. 5 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: How do we change this? 6 MAYOR PRATT: Just leave it as-is. 7 MR. KING: I think this thing -- until you get the 8 consultant's report, I think this thing is still going to be 9 a little fluid. 10 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: Correct. 11 MR. KING: It's going to have some -- 'cause when 12 he gets us -- when he gets a report, you may have some stuff 13 you may want to add or subtract or change in that, that memo 14 of understanding. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, is there anything else on 16 this process, then? 17 MAYOR PRATT: I don't think so. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Where do we stand on the 19 Mooney lease itself? I think it's drafted, think it's been 20 reviewed by the City by the County. 21 MR. KING: We talked about it at our last meeting. 22 Our attorney asked that we include language in there that 23 basically -- pretty vague language, but basically asks that 24 that we include some language in there, not including any of 25 this in the lease. 56 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 2 MR. KING: But it includes some language that 3 referred to -- I don't remember the wording. Do you remember 4 the wording? 5 MR. TITAS: The 380/381 agreements. 6 MR. KING: Basically referred to the 380, that it 7 basically ties the lease to the 380 and 381. 8 MR. TITAS: Those will be exhibits to the lease. 9 MR. KING: Doesn't have -- they'll be exhibits to 10 the lease. Doesn't have anything in there. 11 MAYOR PRATT: Yeah, we didn't want to -- the way it 12 was kind of talked about before that meeting was some 13 language in the 380 and the 381 agreements were incorporated 14 into the lease, and Ilse wisely said let's -- let's not 15 duplicate the language; let's refer to the 380 and 381, and 16 not try to duplicate that language inside the lease 17 agreement. And one of the things that I brought up was if 18 you change the 380 or 381, you don't have to go back and 19 change the lease agreement. You just change the 380 or 381. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And should the 380 or 381 be 21 part of the lease? 22 MR. TITAS: They'll be exhibits. 23 MAYOR PRATT: Exhibits to the lease. 24 MR. KING: It says that the -- 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Just for my edification, why 57 1 are they even there? 2 MR. TITAS: She said it was inappropriate for those 3 to be in the lease. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Why do we even mention it? 5 MR. TITAS: It's the performance measures for 6 Mooney. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Performance measures. 8 MAYOR PRATT: Production, you know, that's a 9 performance measure. Number of employees -- 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Is performance -- 11 MAYOR PRATT: Let me give you an example. If they 12 stop production, and production is -- and the agreement says 13 production is stopped; hasn't been any planes produced or any 14 work done in 90 days. The lease is terminated. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Is performance measures the 16 reason? 17 MR. KING: And she's only adding, Tom, about a 18 two-sentence -- two sentences, and then the 380 and 381. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It's the performance measures, 20 okay. Okay, that answers that. 21 MR. KING: It's pretty simple. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: What's our schedule on the 23 Mooney lease? 24 MR. KING: Well, I think she was going to add that, 25 and I think as soon as we have a draft ready, to send it back 58 1 to David. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Do we have a schedule when 3 it's supposed to be finished? 4 MR. TITAS: It's up to -- I can't speak for her in 5 this regard. She said she's close. 6 MAYOR PRATT: You need to check with her on this. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 8 MR. KING: Obviously, it has to go back to David 9 Jackson. 10 MAYOR PRATT: We can't put a timetable -- exact 11 time frame, because she's got -- she's got her schedule. 12 Then she's got to rely on the schedule for David Jackson, and 13 so you just can't put a -- 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, let's see. We're 15 letting two lawyers determine our schedule. I don't like 16 that. 17 MAYOR PRATT: Let's go somewhere else, Tom. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I don't think I like that. 19 MR. KING: But that is -- that was the final thing 20 we asked her. When can we go ahead and get that done? 21 MR. TITAS: She's close. Every indication about 22 that we have, she's very close. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. We'll put, "She is 24 close." 25 MR. KING: I think in the next couple weeks, 59 1 they'll have something. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 3 MR. KING: You might want to ask her. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 5 MR. KING: What else? 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Leases on Brinkman. And the 7 T-hangars, we know they're all done. 8 MR. KING: The Brinkman Hangar, we have leases that 9 are being prepared for all the parties that are involved in 10 that, and we anticipate July 1st, is what they're telling us. 11 MR. McKENZIE: I pick those leases up this 12 afternoon at 2 o'clock. 13 MR. KING: So, July 1st, we anticipate handing 14 those people their leases. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're going to -- this is an 16 odd question, probably. Are we going to keep calling it 17 forever the Brinkman Hangar? 18 MR. KING: Yeah, we actually changed that. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The reason is for our property 20 insurance, it is a nightmare. We have things that are -- and 21 Bruce has gone through -- we figured them all out here, but 22 we have -- we have, obviously -- 23 MR. KING: We actually tried -- we addressed that 24 at our meeting. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Trying to figure out which 60 1 building goes to which thing. 2 MAYOR PRATT: We addressed that about two airport 3 meetings ago, 'cause I brought it up and said, you know, 4 that's -- 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Brinkman/Brown. 6 MAYOR PRATT: Let's stay with Brinkman. 7 MR. KING: Ilse actually addressed that. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're changing names. 9 MR. KING: It is the Brinkman Hangar. So, we 10 should have those lessees in place by July 1st. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sounds like a little problem, 12 but it's a nightmare. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Mooney Building 17 and 18, 14 they're back to the airport. 15 MR. GRIFFIN: 17, 18, and 19. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 17 MR. GRIFFIN: 'Cause -- 'cause that's really what 18 it is. Well, and actually -- what's the little -- 19 MR. McKENZIE: 21. 20 MR. GRIFFIN: 21. Actually, four buildings 21 involved. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So those are now the 23 airport's. 24 MR. HODKIN: There is a very small other one, which 25 is the vault. 61 1 MAYOR PRATT: Just -- they're not yours, so don't 2 confuse that. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So they're not part of the 4 Mooney lease, okay. 5 MR. GRIFFIN: The other way to maybe refer to it is 6 it's everything that's outside of their proper fence, we now 7 have. 8 MAYOR PRATT: Is the airport's assets that are not 9 leased by Mooney. 10 MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 12 MAYOR PRATT: That's just bottom line. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, good. I didn't have it 14 clarified in my mind. 15 MR. KING: What was it you asked about projected 16 revenue for FY '15? 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, just -- the reason I 18 asked that is I think in the budget that was approved, okay 19 -- and this is for clarification. The -- the T-hangar 20 revenue was included -- 21 MR. KING: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- in there, but nothing was 23 in there for Brinkman hangar. 24 MR. GRIFFIN: Correct. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 62 1 MS. DUNGAN: 30,000 was. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: 30,000 was? Okay. Well, I'm 3 just asking for clarification. 4 MR. KING: And the new rent will be -- 5,300? 5 MR. McKENZIE: 5,400 a month. 6 MR. KING: 5,400 a month in rent for the Brinkman 7 Hangar. 8 MR. McKENZIE: They'll be receiving. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, there's an extra 30,000 10 there that's not in the budget. 11 MR. McKENZIE: That's correct. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. That's what I was 13 looking for. 14 MR. KING: So it's 30,000 more in revenue than we 15 got. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: In one year. 17 MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah, so we've got a half a year. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Just for clarification, okay. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So the budget's correct. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, plus there's a potential 21 extra 30,000 coming in that's not in the budget. Okay. 22 MR. KING: What else? 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. This is the plans, 24 schedule, funding, procedures for other potential capital 25 improvements for, like, additional T-hangars. Are we trying 63 1 to get in the queue for that, or -- 2 MR. McKENZIE: Not at this time. We're in the 3 queue right now for overlaying Taxiway Echo, Foxtrot, and 4 2,600 feet of runway 3/21. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, that's overlay. 6 MR. KING: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So we're in the queue for 8 that, so does that show in the capital budget -- capital 9 budget items for next year? Or -- 10 MR. McKENZIE: Not for next year. What will 11 happen, Tom, next year hopefully we'll be in the queue with 12 TexDOT -- I've already talked to them about it -- to go ahead 13 and do the planning for that. Add the planning, get the 14 planning done for that, and then in FY '16, hopefully we can 15 do that project. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. All right. 17 MR. McKENZIE: That's where we're at. That's the 18 next big one we've got on the front burner right now. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Now, you also mentioned the 20 other runway, redoing it? 21 MR. McKENZIE: That's what I'm talking about, the 22 smallest runway, 3/21. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 24 MR. GRIFFIN: It's only 2,600 feet of it, not the 25 whole 3,600. 64 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 2 MR. McKENZIE: And the taxiway that's parallel to 3 that. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. All right. 5 MR. GRIFFIN: And this taxiway right here. 6 MR. McKENZIE: Taxiway Echo. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: All right, answered that 8 question. 9 MAYOR PRATT: While he's looking at that, I got a 10 question on the T-hangars. 100 percent of them are leased at 11 this point? 12 MR. McKENZIE: Yes, sir. 13 MAYOR PRATT: How many people on the waiting list? 14 MR. McKENZIE: Eight. 15 MAYOR PRATT: Eight are on the waiting list? 16 MR. McKENZIE: Yes, sir. 17 MAYOR PRATT: So, if that's the case and we got 18 eight people on the waiting list, shouldn't we start thinking 19 about getting in the queue for another 12? 20 MR. McKENZIE: We've done -- and I've talked to our 21 new -- I've already done that, Mayor. I've talked to our 22 airport planner, Chris Monroe, and we're -- we need to wait 23 just a little bit longer till we complete this. Probably in 24 the next two months, I'm going to put that queue up after 25 this pavement. I'm concerned about this pavement. We'll put 65 1 that in right behind it, and we should still have enough 2 funding to pay our 10 percent. 3 MAYOR PRATT: Okay. I ran into a property this 4 weekend that's similar. I put my -- I wanted something 5 similar to an airplane hangar, and I had put my name on a 6 waiting list, but I had to pay $100 to get my name on the 7 waiting list. Do we charge anything -- 8 MR. McKENZIE: We do now. 9 MR. KING: 300. 10 MR. McKENZIE: If you want on the waiting list, we 11 need a $300 nonrefundable deposit. 12 MAYOR PRATT: Okay, that's the same thing that I 13 did on my boat slip. 14 MR. McKENZIE: Just to say, "Get me on the list." 15 MR. GRIFFIN: 300. 16 MAYOR PRATT: I just wanted to make sure we're 17 headed in the right direction here. 18 MR. McKENZIE: That's right. Yeah, we charge them. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let me ask a question. If 20 you've got eight, talking about getting in the queue, do you 21 need the sealcoat, which is a non-revenue -- 22 MR. McKENZIE: It's not a sealcoat; this is an 23 overlay. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, overlay, excuse me. So 25 is an overlay more important as a capital improvement as 66 1 opposed to revenue-generating new T-hangars? 2 MR. McKENZIE: Yes, sir, it's imperative in order 3 to maintain our federal grant assurances. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, thank you. That's all I 5 need. 6 MR. GRIFFIN: The runway is getting in bad 7 disrepair. 8 MAYOR PRATT: You're extending the life of the 9 runway. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I understand. 11 MR. KING: And it comes out of two different pots. 12 This money comes out of two different pots. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I just bring this up 'cause 14 I just drove down Tivydale Road, and I see all these 15 different types of hangars around. Are those all -- are 16 those private? 17 MR. GRIFFIN: Private, majority of them. 18 MR. McKENZIE: Well, Snowden owns some, County owns 19 some. There's an -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But my question is, if we still 21 have the demand -- 22 MR. GRIFFIN: The majority -- the short answer to 23 your question is, the majority of the hangars that you saw on 24 Tivydale are privately owned. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. And is there -- and the 67 1 economics still won't work for us to build them ourselves? I 2 mean, obviously, it's better if you get the TexDOT money, 3 'cause you're paying a lot less percentage-wise. 4 MAYOR PRATT: I don't think you can make up 90 5 percent. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But, you know, at the 7 same time, if it's going to be a good business move to build 8 them -- 9 MR. McKENZIE: It's just funding them. 10 MR. KING: The T-hangars don't make sense. If you 11 notice, they're not building many. Most of the T-hangars 12 built are -- 13 MR. GRIFFIN: They're Snowden's. 14 MR. KING: Snowden built those. They're also 15 building them in the county, too. I'll be real honest with 16 you; they're building them in the county. Costs are a lot 17 less, because they don't have to build them up to city 18 standards. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 MR. KING: The slab's thinner. 21 MR. GRIFFIN: And they're not building them to 22 TexDOT standards. Both -- in this case, in fact, 23 Snowden's -- the last brand-new ones that you see, they don't 24 have concrete inside the hangar; they have crushed base. 25 MAYOR PRATT: Ground. 68 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Really? 3 MR. GRIFFIN: They've got concrete on the outside, 4 but the inside of the hangar is crushed base. So, they -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it's apples to oranges, what 6 you're comparing. 7 MR. KING: Yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does it make sense to build 9 some lower-end ones? 10 MAYOR PRATT: Not when you've got eight people on 11 the waiting list already, and you haven't got the hangars 12 finished yet. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's my point. If you built 14 a lower-rent one, can you rent them? 15 MR. GRIFFIN: Bruce and I -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Don't build a Cadillac; build a 17 Chevy. 18 MR. McKENZIE: Do you want me to address it? 19 MR. GRIFFIN: Our conversation yesterday? 20 MR. McKENZIE: We have a plan. I haven't shared it 21 with -- 22 MR. GRIFFIN: I broached -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you're looking at it, that's 24 all I need. 25 MR. GRIFFIN: Well, no, the fact is we've got eight 69 1 airplanes on the list. We have some facilities that we just 2 got back. I walked in yesterday morning and asked Bruce; I 3 said, "I've got an idea I want to throw at you." And, 4 that's -- that idea is because we have those eight names 5 that, in the last eight, 12 months -- eight, 10 months have 6 shown an interest. So, these aren't the 43 names that we had 7 before. Some of those names had been on the list for five 8 years, six years. We've got eight good, solid names. And I 9 haven't broached the subject with the guys on the board or 10 anything, but I got an idea. And -- and so -- 11 MAYOR PRATT: What's the idea? 12 MR. GRIFFIN: The idea is -- is to -- 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I'd tell you, but I can't tell 14 you. 15 MR. GRIFFIN: Well, the idea -- it sounds like 16 Kraft. "I know the answer, but I'm not going to tell you." 17 The idea is to do something with Building 18 so that, very 18 inexpensively, we could put some airplanes in. Not at a $300 19 rate, though. 20 MR. McKENZIE: Half of that. 21 MR. GRIFFIN: Probably half that. But we've also 22 got some dirt work to do and some paving to do, and so I 23 don't have the plan all together yet that I -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 25 MR. GRIFFIN: The concept showed up in my brain 70 1 about two -- two days ago, three days ago, and I went kind 2 of, "Okay, I got to go talk to Bruce and see if it's even a 3 feasible concept." Much less -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 5 MR. GRIFFIN: We do have some -- the kicker is 6 we've got some capabilities now across 3/21 to store some 7 airplanes, and what do we have to do, or what would it cost 8 us to get to the point to utilize those? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 10 MR. GRIFFIN: And take some of those eight spots 11 that we've got people and say, "Hey, we can't offer you an 12 enclosed T-hangar, but we may be able to offer you a shed," 13 and get some revenue out of it. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, okay. That's what I -- 15 I'm just looking at if there's a way to tie everything up in 16 top of the -- 17 MR. GRIFFIN: And that's -- the stuff across the 18 way over there is probably stuff that we can do at a minimal 19 cost. We got to get some ingress and access -- egress and -- 20 in-and-out capability. 21 MR. KING: Ingress and egress. 22 MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah. And that's both from street 23 access as well as from the -- from the runway. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 25 MR. GRIFFIN: Because we've got to come -- whatever 71 1 we do, we've got to come out of Peterson Farm Road or Al 2 Mooney Road back there, and right now we don't have the gates 3 in place to keep our F.A.A. requirements because of security 4 and those kind of things. So -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Y'all are looking at it; 6 that's all I was -- 7 MR. KING: We're looking at it. All right, Tom, 8 plans and liabilities for maintenance. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, go -- yeah, let's just 10 talk about that. You skipped one. 11 MR. KING: Alamo Community College, we've got a 12 lease with those guys. 13 MR. McKENZIE: We do. 14 MR. KING: Got a lease with those guys. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's -- I saw a bunch of 16 work being done. 17 MR. KING: They're building an ADA-compliant 18 bathroom. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Is that what it is? So, all 20 that's good. What -- what's the update, Barry, on Mooney as 21 far as you're still -- your production rate as you projected 22 earlier, and any changes, I guess is what I'm asking. 23 MR. HODKIN: The plan numbers that I gave you in 24 the January time, I guess we're still working on that plan. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 72 1 MR. HODKIN: And we're achieving numbers, so we -- 2 as of now, we're still producing at one plane a month, and 3 two planes are now as per the plan. We ramp to two a month, 4 I want to say end of this year or early -- very early next 5 year. And then 18 months from now, we looked at three, so 6 we're still working on that plan as far as other stuff. 7 MAYOR PRATT: You're at 89 employees? 8 MR. HODKIN: Just tipped over 90; we added five new 9 employees yesterday -- sorry, Monday. 10 MAYOR PRATT: So, 94. 11 MR. HODKIN: All the stuff that we're discussing, 12 for your information, if you want to hear it? 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Sure. 14 MR. HODKIN: The first plane, as you probably are 15 aware, is being auctioned, and the funds from that plane are 16 being used to create a nonprofit Al Mooney Museum-cum- 17 training center, cum-whatever. So, we will be looking for 18 facilities for that, but right now I don't know shape, size, 19 anything. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 21 MR. HODKIN: So it's just a conversation today. 22 And then we -- we are looking at potential new -- not 23 potential; we are looking at new products as well, in 24 addition to the M20 we'll produce. It's probably going to be 25 two years before that's certified and we start production, 73 1 that sort of time frame. So, we've got some decisions to 2 make on footprint for that. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 4 MR. KING: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's fantastic. Steve, the 6 next one was maintenance, and it really has to do with 7 budgets and putting stuff in the budget that addresses 8 maintenance and facilities, because the more and more 9 facilities we're getting, the more and more liabilities we're 10 getting for maintenance. So, no action here; just -- 11 MR. KING: We did -- and we did -- our last budget, 12 we put some more money in there for maintenance. We -- I 13 think Bruce sent out a letter here last week to notify all of 14 our less -- you know, people we lease property to, our 15 tenants, that, you know they're not going to make any changes 16 to the building without notifying us. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 18 MR. KING: You know, just to everybody, to kind of 19 keep everything -- everybody a little more apprized of the 20 fact we're going to have to be a little more diligent about 21 what they do to these buildings, even the ones we have leases 22 under, because they need to be maintained, you know, in a 23 proper manner during the lease also. So -- 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 25 MR. KING: -- we did put money in the budget for 74 1 that. Back on that Alamo Community Colleges, I think y'all 2 all -- especially for Carson, 'cause he hasn't been to any of 3 our meetings, but after they put in this ADA-compliant 4 bathroom, they will have spent over $100,000 on this building 5 over there. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 7 MR. KING: That they have a one-year -- or two-year 8 lease. We gave them a two-year lease for $2, so they've 9 really -- I mean, I don't care if they don't do anything over 10 there; when we do get the building back, we're going to end 11 up with a really, really nice building. They've spent a lot 12 of money on it, and they're trying their best to get the 13 project done, and I think they should be commended for what 14 they've come in here and done. It hasn't cost us a nickel. 15 We've only made $2 off of them, or $3, but they've spent a 16 lot of money. I mean, they've done stuff that we -- we would 17 have had to do to the building anyway to get it going. 18 They've really done a good job. What else do you have? 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think that's it. 20 MR. KING: Is that pretty much it? Anybody else 21 have any other questions? 22 MAYOR PRATT: I've got one. Do we have a policy 23 and procedure about how each tenant is treated? Or, you 24 know, is there something consistent, in writing? Or is there 25 something that, well, they do it this way, and over here they 75 1 do it this way? 2 MR. McKENZIE: All the leases are basically the 3 same. 4 MR. KING: The same leases. 5 MR. McKENZIE: The same leases. 6 MR. KING: Everybody's under the same lease. 7 MAYOR PRATT: And how about the -- 8 MR. KING: As far as -- 9 MAYOR PRATT: Where I'm coming from is -- is that 10 Mooney went for so many years without inspections being kept 11 up to date. 12 MR. KING: Right. 13 MAYOR PRATT: Okay. And what do we have that says, 14 "Okay, it's time for the Airport Manager or staff to..." 15 MR. GRIFFIN: Walk through the building. 16 MAYOR PRATT: Yeah, absolutely. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maintenance on it. 18 MAYOR PRATT: Yeah. And we need to have something 19 where that's in writing. 20 MR. GRIFFIN: I think the difference is -- is that 21 the Mooney lease was written with the words in it that said, 22 "Thou shalt maintain the facility." The old Mooney lease, 23 not -- we're talking about Al Mooney's lease that we were 24 still working under. And it said, "Mooney, thou shalt 25 maintain the facility to -- to do what you guys want to do 76 1 with the facility." The newer leases don't have that in it. 2 They say that we will -- 3 MAYOR PRATT: That's not the question, though. The 4 question is, do we have something in place that follows 5 through -- 6 MR. GRIFFIN: The new leases do. 7 MR. McKENZIE: Our leases have a -- say that we can 8 walk in any building at any time and inspect it. 9 MAYOR PRATT: Because what I'm trying to get to 10 is -- 11 MR. KING: Are we doing that? 12 MAYOR PRATT: -- what says we will absolutely do 13 it? 14 MR. McKENZIE: Have y'all noticed the cleanup 15 that's happened out here in the last 90 days? 16 MR. KING: Yeah. 17 MR. McKENZIE: That should be -- 18 MR. KING: We've cleaned up -- we've -- the board 19 asked Bruce about six months ago to go out -- to go around to 20 all the buildings that we lease and to inspect them all, to 21 look at them, and then go and find out, you know, if there 22 was anything outside their facility that they were keeping 23 outside the facility. We did, and he came back to us and 24 said -- you know, and you got to be very -- you got to do 25 this very diplomatic, but you have to do it on the same scale 77 1 to everybody. You can't make anybody feel like they're being 2 picked on and stuff. 3 MAYOR PRATT: That's my whole point. 4 MR. KING: And so we did that, and we did -- we had 5 a whole bunch of different stuff -- not violations, but stuff 6 that needed to be taken care of, and I would say most of 7 it -- I drive around all the time -- has been taken care of. 8 There's not -- you know, and then as far as the paint, you 9 know, exterior painting of a hangar, something like that, a 10 while back, Joey painted that building down there several 11 years back. But, you know, we do try to -- try to watch out 12 for that. I mean, that's -- we've instructed Bruce to be, 13 you know, on the lookout for anything with these buildings 14 that might require any maintenance on them, stuff like that. 15 MAYOR PRATT: I guess as an owner, -- 16 MR. KING: Yeah. 17 MAYOR PRATT: -- I think we would -- we would like 18 to have a report, 'cause we have to budget capital 19 expenditures. Is there anything that was noticed that has -- 20 that needs to be done that's not part of the lease? Or as 21 part of the lease, and the -- and the lessors -- or lessee 22 hasn't kept up their end of the agreement? 23 MR. KING: Well, it's difficult, because in the 24 lease, it doesn't say you have to maintain the building to 25 new status. It doesn't say you have to maintain the building 78 1 to like you got it when you first built -- it doesn't say -- 2 like, Joey built the hangar over here, spent, you know, 3 $800,000 building it. It doesn't say anywhere in his lease 4 that he has to keep it at the $800,000 status -- you know, 5 the status that he built it at. It doesn't -- Bruce, it 6 says -- mainly it says, you know, he has to maintain the 7 building and the premises. 8 MR. McKENZIE: That's correct. 9 MR. KING: But it doesn't say you have to go in and 10 spray the purlins once every five years, keep the rust off of 11 them, something like that. So, I mean, I don't know. It's 12 kind of -- it's a little bit ambiguous, I mean, as far as 13 what actually -- there's going to be normal wear and tear on 14 a building. And I don't know what -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I mean, I don't 16 know how you do it, but maybe something could be looked at 17 for the future so that we don't -- when the leases are up, we 18 have a reasonably good building, not one that we need to dump 19 a bunch of money into. 20 MR. KING: I agree. 21 MR. GRIFFIN: After the last six months, we're all 22 there too. 23 MR. KING: We're aware of that. And that's -- you 24 know, unfortunately, when the leases are up, we -- we begin 25 the maintenance of the building; we take it over. And we've 79 1 run into that -- the Brinkman Hangar looks like a really nice 2 building and everything, but there's a lot of stuff that 3 probably, you know, you need to fix in it. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Last five years -- if I was 5 Joey, the last five years of his lease -- 6 MR. KING: I wouldn't do a thing. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 8 MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah, exactly. 9 MR. KING: I agree. It's a catch 22, because the 10 lease doesn't specifically call for certain -- 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Standard. 12 MR. KING: -- standards. It doesn't give you 13 standards. Isn't that right, Bruce? Am I talking out of 14 turn? 15 MR. McKENZIE: That's right. 16 MR. GRIFFIN: We do have minimum standards written 17 for the airport that says that, you know, things have to be 18 kept to a certain level. And in -- and basically what that's 19 done, and what Bruce has been very successful at the last 20 six, eight months is what Steve's talking about, whether it's 21 a pile of tires or an old lawnmower sitting someplace, or 22 something -- a trailer and that kind of thing. Or not 23 even -- even to the point of mowing the grass, it's been as 24 easy as Bruce making that phone call and saying, "Hey, is 25 there something you could do?" And pretty rapidly every time 80 1 he's done that, it's been resolved without ever having to 2 go -- Bruce saying, "Hey, I contacted those guys, and they 3 haven't acted on it. Can I get some support out of the 4 board?" or anything. Every time Bruce has called and asked, 5 they've responded. So, I think kind of the answer to both of 6 y'all's questions is, we do have a minimum standard, but it's 7 not -- it's -- 8 MAYOR PRATT: Is it enforced? 9 MR. KING: Yeah, it is. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The minimum is, but it's not -- 11 MR. KING: But it's a metal building. Carson will 12 tell you, it's a metal building. Once you put it up, how 13 long do you think that building's going to last, Carson? 14 MR. GRIFFIN: 20 years at least without doing much. 15 MR. KING: 25 to 30 years. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How long are our leases? 17 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: Depends on how good you want 18 it to look. 19 MR. KING: Exactly. But everything that happens to 20 it is going to be cosmetic mostly. 21 MR. GRIFFIN: I mean -- 22 MR. KING: It's going to be cosmetic. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: As long as you keep the 24 roof -- inspect the roof. 25 MR. KING: And the doors are still working. 81 1 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: The doors are a big part of 2 it. How many times have we been asked to readjust those 3 doors because of a big windstorm? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Insurance takes care of when 5 they blow off. 6 MR. KING: Blow off. But it is a tough -- if it 7 was in, like, the terminal, I could say, like, in the 8 terminal, the carpet's getting worn out. You know, you got 9 to keep -- you know, if someone else leased this terminal, we 10 could come through, and the walls are kind of beat up 'cause 11 you paint these and everything for us. But when we're 12 talking about these hangars and everything, you walk through 13 them, look at them, and they're just -- they're just boxes. 14 COUNCILMAN CONKLIN: They're buildings -- metal 15 buildings and concrete. 16 MR. KING: And it just -- I mean, other than 17 leaving a bunch of junk out next to it and stuff like that, 18 there's not a whole lot we can do. The Brinkman Hangar 19 probably could have been a little more diligent on the 20 offices. I didn't realize that he had gutted all the offices 21 in there. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But they were his. 23 MR. KING: They were his offices. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: We didn't have any authority. 25 MR. KING: And so -- 82 1 MR. GRIFFIN: 'Cause we didn't tell him -- 2 MR. KING: It's a little bit of both in your 3 answer. We're trying -- we're trying to figure out a way to 4 do that better. 5 MAYOR PRATT: Okay. That's -- 6 MR. KING: Believe me, we don't want to spend money 7 on maintenance of facilities when we get them back. We'd 8 rather not have to spend any money on them, but we do. Okay, 9 anybody else? If you need anything else, we'll just 10 basically -- the next meeting, we'll send out a deal to 11 everybody, see if anybody has anything to put on the agenda 12 that they want to talk about, if we need a meeting, or can 13 handle it during the monthly meeting. 14 MR. McKENZIE: That will be in October. 15 MR. KING: Okay. All right. Thanks, guys. I 16 really appreciate it. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, thanks. 18 (Meeting was adjourned at 11:30 a.m.) 19 - - - - - - - - - - 20 21 22 23 24 25 83 1 2 STATE OF TEXAS | 3 COUNTY OF KERR | 4 I, Kathy Banik, official reporter for Kerr County, 5 Texas, do hereby certify that the above and foregoing is a 6 true and complete transcription of my stenotype notes taken 7 at the time and place heretofore set forth. 8 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 20th day of June, 2014. 9 10 _______________________________ Kathy Banik, Texas CSR # 6483 11 Expiration Date: 12/31/14 Official Court Reporter 12 Kerr County, Texas 700 Main Street 13 Kerrville, Texas 78028 Phone: 830-792-2295 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25