1 2 3 4 KERRVILLE-KERR COUNTY JOINT AIRPORT BOARD 5 Regular Meeting 6 Wednesday, December 16, 2015 7 8:30 a.m. 8 Airport Terminal Conference Room 9 1877 Airport Loop Road 10 Kerrville, Texas 11 12 MEMBERS PRESENT: MEMBERS ABSENT: 13 Stephen King, President Corey Walters, Vice-President 14 Ed Livermore Bill Wood 15 Kirk Griffin 16 AIRPORT BOARD STAFF PRESENT: 17 Bruce McKenzie, Airport Manager Carole Dungan, Executive Assistant 18 19 COUNTY STAFF PRESENT: Tom Moser, Commissioner Pct. 2 20 Jonathan Letz, Commissioner Pct. 3 Brenda Doss, Auditor 21 James Robles, Assistant Auditor 22 CITY STAFF PRESENT: 23 24 VISITORS: Dave Bryant, Hill Country Aviation 25 2 1 I N D E X December 16, 2015 2 PAGE 3 CALLED TO ORDER 4 1. VISITORS FORUM - 5 2. KERRVILLE-KERR COUNTY JOINT AIRPORT BOARD 6 MEMBER FORUM - 7 3. CONSENT AGENDA 3A Approval of 10-19-15 Board Meeting Minutes 4 8 4. DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION 9 4A Monthly Financials, October & November 4 10 4B Building 19 (Paint Hangar) upgrades & paving 7 11 4C Planned new subdivision located at Peterson Farm Road and Al Mooney Road 22 12 4D Gravel pit (Executive Session) 24 13 4E Restaurant planning (Executive Session) 40 14 4F Personnel matter (Executive Session) 41 15 5. INFORMATION AND DISCUSSION: 16 5A General Update 42 17 6. EXECUTIVE SESSION -- 18 7. ADJOURNMENT 62 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Monday, December 16, 2015, at 8:30 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerrville-Kerr County Joint Airport Board was 3 held in the Airport Terminal Conference Room, Louis Schreiner 4 Field, Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were 5 had in open session: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 MR. WALTERS: We're going to go ahead and get 8 started with the meeting. Steve's on his way. At this time, 9 we'd like to open the regular meeting of the Kerrville/Kerr 10 County Joint Airport Board for December 16, 2015. Call to 11 order, the visitors' forum. At this time, any person with 12 business not scheduled on the agenda may speak with the 13 Airport Board. No deliberation or action can be taken on 14 these items because the Open Meetings Act requires an item be 15 posted on the agenda 72 hours before the meeting. Visitors 16 are asked to limit their presentations to three minutes. 17 Does anybody have anything they'd like to bring before the 18 board in the meeting? No? Okay. Kerrville/Kerr County 19 Joint Airport Board Member Forum. At this time, any members 20 of the Kerrville/Kerr County Joint Airport Board may speak to 21 the board and/or public present on any matter not scheduled 22 on the agenda. No deliberate or formal action can be taken 23 because the Open Meetings Act requires an item that requires 24 formal action be posted on the agenda 72 hours before the 25 meeting. If formal action is required, the item will be 4 1 placed on the agenda for a future meeting. Any board members 2 have anything they'd like to bring up? All right, we'll go 3 to the consent agenda. All items listed below within the 4 consent agenda are considered routine by the board and will 5 be enacted with one motion. There will not be separate 6 discussion of items unless a board member or citizen so 7 requests, in which event the item will be removed from the 8 general order of business and considered in its normal 9 sequence. And we'll start with the approval of the 10 October 19th, 2015 board meeting minutes. 11 MR. GRIFFIN: I make a motion we approve the 12 minutes. 13 MR. WALTERS: Second? 14 MR. WOOD: I second. 15 MR. WALTERS: Okay. All in favor? 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote, 4-0.) 17 MR. WALTERS: And that has passed. We've approved 18 the October 19th, 2015 board meeting minutes. We have 19 discussion and possible action, so the first item is 4A, 20 monthly financials. James? 21 MR. ROBLES: Good morning. If you'll notice, the 22 reports have different original budget and current budget 23 amounts. That's because we have not closed out the prior 24 year periods. It's October and November both, so you can 25 just disregard the original budget column. That's last 5 1 year's budget. Everything from current budget moving right 2 is like you see on the typical report. Since it's the 3 beginning of a new fiscal year, October and November are both 4 in your packets. 5 MR. LIVERMORE: James, do you know what our cash 6 balance was at the end of the fiscal year? Would that be -- 7 MR. ROBLES: You know, Ed, I had a feeling someone 8 was going to ask me that, and I do not know it off the top of 9 my head. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Like, about 80,000. 11 MR. ROBLES: I can find out for you very shortly. 12 MR. LIVERMORE: Well, that's -- we'll talk on the 13 phone or something. I'm sorry to -- 14 MR. ROBLES: Actually, I have it right here. For 15 47, it's $255,484. 16 MR. LIVERMORE: How much? 17 MR. ROBLES: 255,484. 18 MR. LIVERMORE: 255,484, okay. 19 MR. WALTERS: And that's at the end of October? 20 MR. ROBLES: That's at the end of September. 21 MR. WALTERS: September. 22 MR. ROBLES: Yeah. 23 MR. LIVERMORE: And can we assume that that number 24 is pretty -- all bills are paid? In other words, that's a 25 pretty reliable end-of-year number? 6 1 MR. ROBLES: Yeah. We're not taking anything back 2 to September. 3 MR. LIVERMORE: Okay. 4 MR. WALTERS: Are there any items that you want to 5 address specifically on the October and November 6 individually? 7 MR. ROBLES: Looks like normal bills. Like I said, 8 it's a new -- the beginning of the fiscal year, so everything 9 seems to be in order. 10 MR. LIVERMORE: I have a related question, just for 11 Carole. Carole, I appreciate you sending me the bill for my 12 own hangar, which I've already sent you the check in the 13 mail, but anyway, does that go to everyone at the same time, 14 or each renter on their own? 15 MS. DUNGAN: No, sir, I send it out the same time 16 to everyone once a month. 17 MR. LIVERMORE: If someone rents in, say, June, 18 they pay so many months until the billing point, and then 19 everyone's billed at the same time? 20 MS. DUNGAN: Everyone's billed every month. 21 MR. LIVERMORE: Oh. 22 MS. DUNGAN: If you are an annual, you pay 23 annually, and I bill you your annual bill. And then the rest 24 of the months, I don't send you one, 'cause you're already 25 paid. 7 1 (Mr. King joined the meeting.) 2 MR. LIVERMORE: Right. But what if -- what if 3 another person pays annually in June; do they get their 4 annual statement in June? 5 MS. DUNGAN: Yes, sir. 6 MR. LIVERMORE: Okay. I didn't know. I thought 7 you brought everyone to a certain point and then did all of 8 them at once. 9 MS. DUNGAN: No, no. 10 MR. KING: Good morning. 11 MR. LIVERMORE: Morning. 12 MR. WALTERS: If anybody doesn't have any other 13 comments, I -- do we have a motion to approve the October and 14 November financials? 15 MR. LIVERMORE: So moved. 16 MR. WALTERS: Second? 17 MR. WOOD: Second. 18 MR. WALTERS: All in favor? 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote, 5-0.) 20 MR. WALTERS: Motion passed. Financials for 21 October and November are approved. 22 MR. LIVERMORE: Do you relinquish the gavel? 23 MR. WALTERS: I do. 24 MR. KING: Item 4B. Building 19, paint hangar 25 upgrades and paving. Bruce? 8 1 MR. McKENZIE: Yes, sir. At the October meeting, I 2 was asked by the board to get just material prices for the 3 paving it would take for a new road, the area around the 4 paint hangar and the new taxiway, and also to look inside 5 that hangar and do some due diligence to see what it would 6 take cost-wise to get it where we could use it for a storage 7 area. And I got a local contractor to go with me, and we 8 looked at it. I'll start with the interior first. And I'm 9 not going to get into a lot of details unless you want to, 10 but to demo the walls inside and then to remove all that 11 large duct work -- and there's a plenum in there; it's 12 probably almost as big as this room. It's huge. And then 13 that heater that's on top of the building. To dispose of all 14 that, and then a $5,000 contingency, you're looking at about 15 $25,000 to get the inside of that opened up, including 16 disposing the plenum and all the duct work. 17 MR. KING: Mm-hmm. 18 MR. McKENZIE: The outside of the building, the 19 access road from Peterson Farm Road into that, just for the 20 materials, is going to run about $21,000. That's a 21 two-course surface treatment using trap, Grade 3 and 5. That 22 includes the oil and the base material just to build a road 23 in there, a paved road. 24 MR. LIVERMORE: That's a taxiway, right? 25 MR. WALTERS: Access road. 9 1 MR. LIVERMORE: Okay. 2 MR. McKENZIE: Actually, for the road -- actually, 3 just for the road, it's $10,150. The paint hangar, to pave 4 around it's $21,000, and to pave the taxiway is $10,000. 5 That's just materials. So, that's $41,000 just for paving 6 products. That's not labor, and that's not material -- not 7 labor or equipment; that's just materials. 8 MR. KING: Okay. 9 MR. McKENZIE: And I had -- 10 MR. LIVERMORE: It was how much inside? 11 MR. WALTERS: 25. 12 MR. McKENZIE: 25,000 to get it cleaned out. 13 MR. WOOD: So we're talking 65. 14 MR. LIVERMORE: Well, what about a taxiway? 15 MR. McKENZIE: Taxiway is $10,000 for the material. 16 MR. LIVERMORE: Is that included in -- 17 MR. KING: That's in the -- 18 MR. McKENZIE: 41, that's correct. 19 MR. KING: So, $65,000 in labor and materials 20 basically to get that -- 21 MR. McKENZIE: To get it -- that's not -- 22 MR. KING: Not labor. Not paving labor, but -- 23 MR. McKENZIE: That's if -- 24 MR. KING: -- that's to get it opened up and 25 everything. 10 1 MR. McKENZIE: Yes, sir, just for the material and 2 to get the inside cleaned out. 3 MR. LIVERMORE: And then the labor is laying it. 4 MR. McKENZIE: Whatever it will take. And I had 5 another price from another contractor that said he would 6 build the road for about 18 -- about $19,000, so it's -- and 7 I got a price from Charlie Hastings from the County, and 8 they're running pretty concurrent. They were, like, $1,000 9 difference, so everybody's working -- the numbers were very 10 close for labor and equipment. So, the price I got, plus the 11 price Charlie gave me was right on the money. So -- 12 MR. WOOD: So that would be the cost to get the 13 thing ready to let somebody store things in it. 14 MR. McKENZIE: To occupy the building. 15 MR. WOOD: Right. 16 MR. KING: What part of that had labor in it? 17 MR. McKENZIE: None of the numbers that I gave you 18 first, the $41,000. 19 MR. KING: You said you talked to Charlie. 20 MR. McKENZIE: I talked to Charlie about what would 21 it cost, labor and equipment? 22 MR. GRIFFIN: To put road base down. 23 MR. McKENZIE: And he was about $20,000. And I got 24 a price from the contractor, and he was at 19,000, so -- 25 MR. KING: Okay. 11 1 MR. LIVERMORE: So this number of 66,000, you add 2 the labor -- 3 MR. McKENZIE: You have to put that -- 4 MR. LIVERMORE: -- to put the paving down? 5 MR. McKENZIE: Yes, sir. 6 MR. GRIFFIN: It's base and paving, so you got to 7 build roads. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, if you hired that whole 9 thing done, you're somewhere in the neighborhood of 85,000? 10 MR. McKENZIE: Somewhere in the neighborhood. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, ballpark estimate. 12 MR. GRIFFIN: That's -- that's on -- and what's not 13 included in there is that electrical rework. 14 MR. McKENZIE: That's correct. 15 MR. KING: Does the electrical work have to be done 16 if we just use it for storage? 17 MR. McKENZIE: You have to do it if you're going to 18 do any maintenance in that hangar. If we're just going to 19 store airplanes, that's what we were doing before. We don't 20 have to -- 21 MR. KING: Don't have to do that? 22 MR. LIVERMORE: Does it meet the fire code? 23 MR. McKENZIE: Not -- it does to just stick an 24 airplane in there. 25 MR. LIVERMORE: If we do maintenance, that's a 12 1 different deal? 2 MR. McKENZIE: Different. We change the use of the 3 building. 4 MR. LIVERMORE: And that's more money? 5 MR. McKENZIE: Yes, sir, that's correct. 6 MR. GRIFFIN: The bid that we got from Guadalupe -- 7 MR. McKENZIE: Electric, and I forgot what that 8 was. 9 MR. WOOD: Seemed like 25 grand. 10 MR. McKENZIE: 25,000 or 30,000. 11 MR. WOOD: Just to do the electrical. 12 MR. GRIFFIN: Just to redo the electrical. So, 13 we're looking at a little over 100,000. 14 MR. LIVERMORE: Well, not to belabor the point, but 15 if we went to maintenance, in order to meet fire code, is 16 there any additional code for that? 17 MR. McKENZIE: The electrical's the main thing. 18 MR. LIVERMORE: So it's not anything else -- 19 MR. McKENZIE: I'm sure there will be once we get 20 in there, but to my knowledge, the electrical's the main 21 thing at this point, and access, ingress and egress to the 22 building. 23 MR. LIVERMORE: Right, mm-hmm. 24 MR. WOOD: It's roughly 100 grand to make the 25 thing -- 13 1 MR. GRIFFIN: Plus. 2 MR. WOOD: -- rentable. 3 MR. McKENZIE: Yeah, 100-plus. 4 MR. KING: And how much is the building -- how big 5 is it? 10,000? 6 MR. McKENZIE: 10,000. It's 100-by-100, yes, sir. 7 MR. KING: So that's about 30,000 a year? 8 MR. McKENZIE: Yes, sir. 9 MR. KING: So it's a three-year payout -- little 10 over three-year payout for storage. 11 MR. McKENZIE: We get $3.18 a square foot for it. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Think you can rent it? 13 MR. KING: In a heartbeat, probably. 14 MR. McKENZIE: Probably. David told us at the 15 meeting in October or September that if we brought it up to 16 speed, that and got him in and out of there, he'd pay us 17 market value for it. So -- 18 MR. KING: You could even rent half and half if 19 somebody didn't want all of it. 20 MR. McKENZIE: Sure. 21 MR. KING: You could get a cyclone fence put down 22 the middle of it. (Laughter.) 23 MR. McKENZIE: No comment. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, if you got the City and 25 County to do the labor on the paving, -- 14 1 MR. McKENZIE: Paving. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- so then it's 65,000, 3 66,000, right? No? 4 MR. McKENZIE: No, no. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You're still at 80? 6 MR. KING: If you do the electrical. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No, forget -- just for 8 storage. 9 MR. KING: Oh, just for storage? 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Just for storage, 66,000. So, 11 you got a two-year -- two-year payback. 12 MR. KING: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Which is pretty good. 14 MR. LIVERMORE: The type of airplane that would go 15 in there, what would they be, if we just -- 16 MR. McKENZIE: Mooneys and 172's, Bonanzas. That's 17 all we could -- 18 MR. LIVERMORE: Single-engine or twins. 19 MR. KING: How tall is the door? 20 MR. McKENZIE: The door, Steve, on that -- 21 MR. GRIFFIN: 14 feet. 22 MR. McKENZIE: -- is about 15 feet. 23 MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah, 14 for sure. 24 MR. WOOD: So we couldn't use it for jet airplanes. 25 MR. McKENZIE: No, because of the way the design 15 1 is. 2 MR. KING: Just have to modify -- 3 MR. WOOD: You can modify the door. You can cut 4 a -- 5 MR. McKENZIE: He doesn't want to put -- I'm not 6 speaking for David, but I don't think he wanted to store the 7 Hawker in there. I think he was talking about doing 8 maintenance on aircraft. Is that correct? 9 MR. BRYANT: Well, I wanted to do all the above, 10 really. 11 MR. KING: Could you modify that by putting -- you 12 could put a roll-up door up there. 13 MR. McKENZIE: Yeah. 14 MR. KING: Like at San Antonio at the big hangar 15 down there. They modified it with a roll-up door to allow 16 the tail to come through, and they just pull the door back 17 down. 18 MR. BRYANT: Could pull the tail down. 19 MR. KING: You could do that too. (Laughter.) I 20 think a roll-up door will probably be cheaper. 21 MR. LIVERMORE: Or you have the tail sticking out. 22 MR. KING: Does that road -- is there -- the route 23 of that road, does that interfere with anything with that 24 Mooney plan? 25 MR. McKENZIE: Well, the plans that we know 16 1 about, -- 2 MR. KING: I mean -- 3 MR. McKENZIE: -- no. 4 MR. KING: No? 5 MR. McKENZIE: Not at this time. But then we keep 6 hearing that they may want that building back, and that's why 7 they wanted to leave the lifts in there. 8 MR. KING: Mm-hmm. 9 MR. McKENZIE: Those lifts are still in that 10 building. And y'all have heard the conversation. 11 MR. KING: We've heard that, yeah. 12 MR. WALTERS: Tom and Jonathan, I mean, obviously, 13 we don't have any money in our budget for -- to do this work. 14 Would y'all, from the county point of view -- we'd have to 15 ask the City. Would y'all be amenable to putting up the 16 money to doing this work? 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, I don't -- I'll let 18 Jonathan speak, but I think we just need to see what the pro 19 forma and the business plan would be. I mean, it sounded 20 like on the low end, just discussing it for storage, a 21 two-year payback, and you get -- 22 MR. WALTERS: Three. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, if it's only -- 24 MR. KING: You don't have to do the -- 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: If the City/County did the 17 1 paving, then you get a two-year payback just for storage. 2 So, I don't know. That's the way I'd look at it. Jonathan? 3 MR. WALTERS: I mean, if we had a -- let's say we 4 had a prospective tenant. I mean, not just go out there and 5 do it just hoping that somebody will lease it, but if we had 6 a prospective tenant, do you think that's something that you 7 feel like y'all would -- 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, it's not in our budget. 9 We'd have to -- 10 MR. WALTERS: I know. I know. I'm just -- I mean, 11 we're -- I'm just asking what you think. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, from my standpoint, it 14 would be -- 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Good idea. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- letting Road and Bridge fit 17 it into their schedule. 18 MR. KING: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And same thing; if they'd be 20 willing to do that, and then the materials could come out of 21 y'all's reserves. 22 MR. KING: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I don't see -- we're 24 not going to buy the materials. We don't have it. We just 25 can't do it this year. 18 1 MR. KING: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- 3 MR. KING: We would look at something -- we could 4 probably look at something like this as a pretty good project 5 for the City and the County, because we need some hot mix 6 laid, and we also need chip seal. 7 MR. McKENZIE: Chip seal. 8 MR. KING: And you guys, both of y'all do that. 9 You guys can do the chip seal part of it and they can do the 10 hot mix part of it, and so it's got a pretty good share -- 11 capability of sharing -- sharing the work in that thing. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: If you look at it in the grand 13 scheme of things, too, it's a city/county asset. It's not 14 doing anything, just sitting there deteriorating. So, 15 between the two of us, if we can find, you know, $60,000 to 16 $100,000 -- 17 MR. KING: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- to put in it and do it, you 19 know, it's -- from a business standpoint, sounds pretty 20 attractive. 21 MR. WALTERS: Right. Not many projects you can say 22 that have a little over two-year payback. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right, precisely. 24 MR. KING: Well, and it's -- if you have -- if you 25 built the building, you know, it's a $300,000 or $400,000 19 1 building. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Oh, yeah. 3 MR. KING: Just the building itself. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And -- and if you look at cash 5 flow, it's getting closer to being neutral. 6 MR. KING: Well, I think it's one those deals where 7 we kind of looked at -- at projects out here to make -- to 8 increase revenue for the airport, and we've run out of area 9 -- we've run out of projects that don't require a lot of 10 capital to be thrown in -- 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 12 MR. KING: -- on the project. And this is a -- 13 like you say, this is an asset, very similar to the Mooney 14 hangar. You can look at it, it's kind of like the Mooney 15 hangar. You know, it's just deteriorating every year, and 16 it's going to be obviously taken care of better if it's 17 occupied -- you know, if it's occupied. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, like I said, it's 19 deteriorating every year sitting there. 20 MR. KING: Empty. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Empty. 22 MR. KING: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, I'd say -- and Jonathan 24 can speak, but I'd say come forward with, "Here's what we 25 propose to do." 20 1 MR. LIVERMORE: Go to the next step. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. Just come back with a 3 proposal. 4 MR. KING: I have no doubt if we didn't -- even if 5 we didn't have a tenant for it, that we would have something 6 to put in there. We would have some sort of revenue source 7 immediately. I mean, the demand at this airport is -- I 8 mean, Dave will tell you, even for hangar space, it's just -- 9 it's crazy. I know Frank -- I talked to Frank. I mean, he's 10 got people over there -- "Just go away, leave me alone. Get 11 out of here; I can't take it." You know, "I can't take any 12 more airplanes." They're done. I mean, he's got 19 13 airplanes over there right now. 14 MR. WALTERS: It's the only building, I believe, 15 that we have that has -- on the airport right now that has 16 zero revenue. 17 MR. KING: Right. That's a very good point. 18 That's a great point. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Excellent point. 20 MR. LIVERMORE: There's another one; that's the 21 college. 22 MR. KING: We get a dollar. 23 MR. LIVERMORE: Hmm? 24 MR. KING: We get a dollar. 25 MR. LIVERMORE: Oh. 21 1 MR. GRIFFIN: Not zero. 2 MR. KING: Not zero; it's a dollar. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you should proceed. I 4 wouldn't worry about a tenant. 5 MR. KING: Yeah, I don't think that's a problem. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And from our standpoint, 7 because of -- this is a down period -- 8 MR. KING: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- for us. You know, there's 10 basically work that needs to be done on the road that can be 11 done, and it can maybe fit in the sealcoat as soon as we 12 start that in May-June. 13 MR. KING: And you got to also consider that by 14 building that road from Peterson Farm over to that building, 15 you're -- you're establishing an asset for the airport. That 16 opens up the other area that we have over there. You know, I 17 mean, if you wanted to build along 21 over there, that 18 land -- we have a lot of land over there on 21; it requires 19 that same entrance, that same road coming in there, so it has 20 got to be built at some point. You can't go across the 21 runway, and there's no other access to it, so it kind of -- 22 you know, it fits in pretty well with the long-term capital 23 improvement that's going to be of use for a long time on the 24 airport. 25 MR. WALTERS: It fits in with -- 22 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Come forward with a proposal. 2 MR. WALTERS: And it fits in with our master plan. 3 MR. KING: Do it, yeah. But, okay. Well, I think 4 -- I think we can probably get something together. Get 5 together some expenses, some expenditures and some -- and 6 then compare that to our revenue, different revenue -- forms 7 of revenue that would come off of that building through a 8 maintenance facility or through storage or something like 9 that. And we can use -- we have a pretty good example with 10 the Brinkman hangar, what we leased that thing for. I mean, 11 that was, you know, pretty much the same type of building. 12 It was in better shape, obviously. So, we'll get something 13 together, and then we'll bring it to the City and the County, 14 and at least get on an informational, you know, deal to talk 15 to you about it so you guys can... 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Good. 17 MR. KING: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Good deal. 19 MR. LIVERMORE: Great. 20 MR. KING: That's great, Bruce. That's very good. 21 Thank you. 22 MR. McKENZIE: You're welcome. 23 MR. KING: All right. 4C, planned subdivision. 24 Have you pulled that, or is it still there? 25 MR. McKENZIE: He let me know yesterday -- it was 23 1 after the agenda was posted, but the gentleman contacted me 2 and said they will not be building the subdivision. They've 3 stopped it. It's stopped. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Is this the city thing, or -- 5 MR. KING: No. 6 MR. McKENZIE: This was the one that was right here 7 at the intersection -- I think the one the mayor was talking 8 about was on your side of the road. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, right. 10 MR. KING: This is 27 acres -- or 18? 27 acres? 11 MR. McKENZIE: This one is 24. 12 MR. KING: 24 acres, basically straight ahead of 13 Mooney. The other side of those trees, there's 27 acres 14 right there. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I see. All right. 16 MR. KING: That -- 17 MR. McKENZIE: Other side of the creek. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I understand. 19 MR. KING: Actually borders the land that the 20 airport owns. Is that correct? 21 MR. McKENZIE: That's correct, yes, sir. 22 MR. KING: It borders the land that we own across 23 Al Mooney Road. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Goes all the way to 27? 25 MR. KING: It was platted. I mean, they had a 24 1 lot -- is that in the city or county? 2 MR. McKENZIE: It's in the ETJ. 3 MR. KING: In the ETJ. I think they had it platted 4 for a lot of houses -- a bunch of houses. 5 MR. WOOD: Isn't that land situated where, when 6 somebody turns to land on 12, that you'd be flying almost 7 right over them? 8 MR. McKENZIE: I will tell you that in our master 9 plan, when the noise contour study was done, it runs right 10 through the middle of that piece of property. 11 MR. KING: Yeah. 12 MR. McKENZIE: To answer your question, yes. 13 MR. WOOD: Yeah. 14 MR. KING: Okay. So, I guess we won't build -- 15 since they -- 16 MR. McKENZIE: They pulled it. 17 MR. KING: -- notified us they've pulled it, we'll 18 pull it from the -- we'll not talk about it. Okay. 19 MR. LIVERMORE: Mr. Chairman, on 4D, I don't see 20 any point in putting that in executive session. 21 MR. KING: I don't either. 22 MR. LIVERMORE: We can talk about that right here. 23 MR. KING: Yeah, okay. 4D. Ed? 24 MR. LIVERMORE: Okay. I guess I have -- I'm 25 concerned about the development and any possible 25 1 encroachment, both from an aerial particulate, as well as any 2 F.A.A. avigation issues. Do you know of anything like that? 3 Let's talk about them separately. Let's talk -- 4 MR. McKENZIE: The avigation issues, to my 5 knowledge, we have none. And I've also gone back to TexDOT 6 Aviation. They haven't got back to me yet, but last week 7 they were checking to see if they've got any avigation 8 records about that approach, and -- and she'll tell us if 9 there is any. 10 MR. LIVERMORE: Okay. 11 MR. McKENZIE: But right now, there's none that I 12 know of. 13 MR. LIVERMORE: The second thing would be any type 14 of -- has there been any study by Martin Marietta to show us 15 that they will not create a particulate issue in the air by 16 stirring things up and causing -- I'm particularly concerned 17 about turbine engines. 18 MR. McKENZIE: I understand. And Commissioner 19 Moser was talking to them -- 20 MR. LIVERMORE: They'll be relatively low at that 21 point. 22 MR. McKENZIE: I'll tell you what I know about the 23 EPA rules, you know, as far as open-pit mining and crushing 24 operations. 25 MR. LIVERMORE: Mm-hmm. 26 1 MR. McKENZIE: It has become more stringent now 2 that particulates have to be contained and maintained. 3 That's why you see them water -- well, you probably don't. I 4 come through there sometimes. When you come through 5 Sutherland Road over here, they keep that road on both sides 6 watered every day when they're hauling. I mean, there's 7 hardly any dust at all over there, nor is there any dust 8 around their screening operation, because the trucks all have 9 sprayers on them, and there's no crushing on that side of the 10 road. They're crushing on the west side of the road. 11 There's a primary and secondary crusher over there, but 12 they're even spraying water on that. And I go by there every 13 day coming and going home, and there's minimal dust. But 14 Commissioner Moser might be able to -- 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let me -- I met with Martin 16 Marietta last week, and TexDOT and Road and Bridge, and what 17 they plan to do -- what Martin Marietta plans to do, just 18 from a particulate standpoint, to have a rock crusher in that 19 area, they have to have a public hearing and T.C.E.Q. permit. 20 They do not plan on crushing at that location. They're going 21 to -- 22 MR. McKENZIE: Screen and pan. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: They're just going to screen 24 there, and they're going to wash, and not get into that right 25 now. They're going to crush -- they're going to move the 27 1 material from the location by Guadalupe Heights, the thing 2 we're talking about down at the current location, and crush, 3 okay, where they already have the permits. They may at some 4 point put the crushing operation down at the new location 5 which is further to the west, and at that time, they're going 6 to have to have a T.C.E.Q. permit for dust. The only other 7 permit they need right now for operation is stormwater 8 retention, and that is -- that's in the process of being 9 approved, or it's -- the application is being submitted to 10 T.C.E.Q. They're not going to be in the floodplain, so they 11 don't need a permit from the county for that. There's an 12 issue for the ingress/egress -- ingress/egress for the truck 13 traffic on Highway 27, and that's going to be an issue for -- 14 they're working with TexDOT on what they have to do. They're 15 probably going to have to put turn lanes and acceleration 16 lanes in that, because TexDOT has said the entrance that's 17 there now was approved for a hay field, and not for the type 18 of operation that they have, so they're going to have to meet 19 the TexDOT standards there. So, from a county perspective, 20 they don't need any other permits from the county. If they 21 use Split Rock Road, then they're going to have to -- that 22 road is not capable of carrying that load, so they'll have to 23 pay to have that road reworked on Split Rock, which is not -- 24 is not desirable. So, the whole thing is they plan on doing 25 it. They own the 200 acres there all the way down to the 28 1 river. Their engineering group, they're the ones that we met 2 with. They got the plans in place -- preliminary plans in 3 place. They, at one time, planned on starting operations 4 about midsummer of 2016, so I don't know if they can do that 5 with all of TexDOT's requirements, but that's their plan. 6 From the perspective of citizens, a lot people are very upset 7 that it's going there. Martin Marietta knows about people 8 being upset. They're going to put in berms and landscape and 9 that kind of stuff to make it look as nice as possible. So, 10 that's it in a nutshell. I don't see anything that -- you 11 know, they -- you know, at the end of the runway, they have 12 an operation down there, so I don't know that dust is a 13 legitimate concern. They will wash everything and recycle 14 all the water, quote, unquote. So -- 15 MR. KING: Is the approach -- I can't remember. Is 16 the approach right over that place, or to the right of it? 17 MR. BRYANT: Where the gravel pit's at? 18 MR. LIVERMORE: That hay field. 19 MR. KING: I can't remember whether you fly over 20 it. 21 MR. McKENZIE: Right over the top. 22 MR. KING: You fly right over that? Okay. 23 MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah, you fly right over that. 24 MR. WOOD: I'd like to ask a question. Ed brings 25 up this example; he brings up a good point. Is there 29 1 anything that the F.A.A. has in their rules that would make 2 sense for us to get the approaches, then, to the different 3 runways zoned by the city or county such that only stuff that 4 the F.A.A. would allow to be there -- I mean -- 5 MR. LIVERMORE: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: The county doesn't have any 7 zoning. City does, but it's not in the city, so they can't 8 zone. 9 MR. WOOD: So, obviously, you wouldn't want 10 high-rise buildings where you -- 11 MR. GRIFFIN: No, and that's all in -- that's the 12 question that Bruce asked TexDOT. TexDOT's our go-to on 13 that. 14 MR. WOOD: So what we should do to be proactive, I 15 think, would be to look at all that and say, "Hey whoever is 16 the zoning authority" -- 17 MR. KING: No zoning. 18 MR. McKENZIE: There's no zoning. 19 MR. WOOD: There's nothing we can do? So if 20 someone built a high-rise, we'd have to shut the airport 21 down? 22 MR. McKENZIE: We can do things, but we would have 23 to just let them divert -- cut the path, but we could do 24 things. But there's no zoning rules in the county. 25 MR. WOOD: So zoning wouldn't be a way to handle 30 1 that. 2 MR. McKENZIE: Correct, there's no zoning rules. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, not in the county. But I 4 thought this board had zoning authority. 5 MR. GRIFFIN: There are Tex -- there are F.A.A. 6 TexDOT regulations about getting inside, heighth, and in 7 relation to distance from the -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 9 MR. WOOD: So, anybody wanting to build a housing 10 development or, you know, business center or whatever, we 11 ought to have some documents that say, okay -- 12 MR. GRIFFIN: They're in existence, but that's the 13 question that Bruce hasn't got the answer from TexDOT yet. 14 MR. WOOD: But rather than ask it every time one of 15 these things comes up, wouldn't it be good to have some -- 16 MR. GRIFFIN: It's -- the data is in the master 17 plan. 18 MR. McKENZIE: We've got the Part 77 data in the 19 master plan. But that trapezoidal area extends out over 20 that, but it's above. 21 MR. GRIFFIN: Right. But it -- that's a piece of 22 it. 23 MR. McKENZIE: That's correct. You're right. 24 MR. GRIFFIN: That's in the master plan, so that -- 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's in the master plan. 31 1 MR. GRIFFIN: -- that data exists. And so Bruce's 2 question to TexDOT is, does this get into a violation of any 3 of these requirements -- 4 MR. WOOD: Right. 5 MR. GRIFFIN: -- that we have for making sure that 6 our approach is free and clear? 7 MR. LIVERMORE: This is really probably -- goes way 8 back, but my family owned a homestead out in west Oklahoma in 9 Jackson County, at the approach end -- it turned out later on 10 to be the approach end of Altus -- the north-south runway to 11 Altus Air Force Base. The Air Force had an avigation 12 easement over that farm. It was just a farm, but, I mean, if 13 we wanted to build something there, they -- we couldn't 14 penetrate. And isn't that type of thing available? 15 MR. McKENZIE: Yes. That's -- 16 MR. KING: But I think the thing you got to 17 consider is that the approach is -- the angle of that 18 trapezoid is -- I mean, you're 400 -- what's the minimum out 19 there, three? 20 MR. McKENZIE: The minimum there is 271. 21 MR. KING: 271. And that's -- you know, that's -- 22 MR. McKENZIE: Right here. 23 MR. KING: Right. So as you move out a half a 24 mile, it gets higher, higher, higher, faster. I mean, you'd 25 have to build something very close to the end of the runway 32 1 for it to come -- I mean, Corey knows. You ago to Destin, 2 Florida; they built that condo at the end. 3 MR. LIVERMORE: Look at Addison. 4 MR. KING: They built three condos at the end of 5 the runway at Destin. You think you're going to hit them 6 every time you come in, literally, but they're legal. I 7 think they were within the legal heighth of the approach. 8 But, I mean, when you fly in there, you think, "My gosh, how 9 can this be here?" But it's legal. So, I mean, it -- you 10 have to get really close to the airport for it to come into 11 the heighth point. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bruce, I believe when the 13 airport did their master plan a while back, didn't TexDOT buy 14 a house over here? 15 MR. McKENZIE: We did back over here, yeah. We had 16 to buy that house to move the road over. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was thinking there was one 18 over on this side, too. 19 MR. McKENZIE: No, we got all that 22 acres a 20 couple years ago. 21 MR. KING: I thought so too, that house across the 22 street, that yellow one. I always thought that -- 23 MR. McKENZIE: That doesn't belong to us; that 24 belongs to the lady in San Antonio. That's what's you're 25 talking about? 33 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 2 MR. KING: Tom, one question you might ask Martin 3 Marietta is what are the hours going to be of that operation? 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I don't know. 5 MR. KING: What would be a concern to me would 6 be -- one thing would be if they had any night operations, 7 the lighting. The lighting -- 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think the plan is not to do 9 anything -- any night operations. 10 MR. KING: That would be a question I would have, 11 because at night -- at night it would be a hazard -- a hazard 12 for -- 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I offered to have, you know, a 14 town hall meeting to let everybody understand. They chose 15 not to have that. 16 MR. KING: One more question. Obviously, I live in 17 the area, and I've talked to you about it already one time. 18 What -- why -- what was the thinking? Did you guys have 19 conversations with the City about annexing that property, 20 since it -- they've annexed all along the road? I mean, it's 21 annexed all the way out to here. 22 MR. LIVERMORE: I've had that conversation with -- 23 MR. KING: They have a corridor where they could 24 annex that property. Was there ever any conversations with 25 the City of Kerrville about annexing that property to try to 34 1 save those poor people? 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: A couple years ago it was 3 mentioned, but nothing was -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The City had no interest in 5 annexing. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: If they annex it, then they 7 annex Guadalupe Heights and the little subdivision to the 8 east of Split Rock. That would be a huge expenditure by the 9 City for water and sewer and streets and -- 10 MR. KING: But they could have annexed the hay 11 field. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: They could. 13 MR. KING: They annexed these hay fields. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You'll have to -- you'll have 15 to ask the mayor about that. 16 MR. LIVERMORE: I know it's in his head. I was 17 hoping he would be here today to chat with us about this, but 18 we'll have to do it another time. 19 MR. WALTERS: I had a -- owned a piece of property 20 on Thompson Drive that was in the city, and they had no water 21 and sewer to it. And I called the city and I said -- you 22 know, I met with the city and I said, "Isn't it your 23 responsibility, since it's in the city limits, to provide the 24 water and sewer to the property?" And they said no. We made 25 -- they said, "Water is 1,000 feet down on Thompson Drive, 35 1 and you can go down there and connect to it." 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would be a question for 3 the City. There's a lot of area out towards Ingram that's in 4 the city limits that they don't provide any services; haven't 5 for over 20 years. 6 MR. WALTERS: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yet I've asked them about the 8 area around Roy, which is by the old Tivy High School up 9 there. That's also in the county. I've asked them to 10 consider annexing that. They said they have no interest in 11 it. 12 MR. WALTERS: The only reason I bring it up is 13 because you mentioned about the huge expense that it may be 14 to annex a property. In my mind, based on -- it may be none. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, the only reason I 16 brought that up is -- is I think the City incurred a lot of 17 expense when they annexed Riverhill, which didn't meet a lot 18 of the standards for the roads and other things. And so -- 19 MR. LIVERMORE: That was years ago, though. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But I think you need to talk 21 to the City about that. 22 MR. LIVERMORE: Right. 23 MR. WALTERS: One other thing. Just curious. I 24 mean, you mentioned that they're going to -- you know, for 25 the particulate, that they water it down or whatnot, you 36 1 know. Are there any monthly, quarterly or whatever reports 2 or tests that they have to submit to the city so that we know 3 that they're doing these things? 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: They have -- and I'm talking 5 without experience here or knowledge, but they have to submit 6 reports to T.C.E.Q. regularly on water -- water retention. 7 They have to measure in their retention ponds; they have to 8 measure the particulate, and -- and if they get near the 9 river, then if their stuff goes in the river, then it's 10 another set of requirements they have to meet. So, I don't 11 know if they're monthly or what the frequency is. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the County has no say in it 13 whatsoever. T.C.E.Q. has all the regulatory authority over 14 that type of operation. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 16 MR. KING: From what Tom talked to me about it, 17 right, when I called about it, Martin Marietta knows -- they 18 know the laws, and they're very good at it. They have a -- 19 they have a platoon of lawyers that take care of this on a 20 day-to-day basis. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: They do. 22 MR. KING: And you're -- they know their rights 23 completely when they acquire a piece of property. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 25 MR. KING: And it's -- so there's pretty much not a 37 1 whole lot you can do, other than T.C.E.Q. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 3 MR. KING: Other than annexing the property prior 4 to -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 6 MR. KING: -- the operation. Okay. Any more -- 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It will be ugly. 8 MR. KING: Tell me about it. My concern is the 9 burden on this road, on 27, with Avery moving across the 10 street, with 300 people coming in and out of that thing. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Jonathan and I met several 12 times with TexDOT and discussed the whole thing, from the Ag 13 Barn all the way down to Comfort, almost. And they have the 14 plans in place to have turn lanes and acceleration lanes, but 15 it didn't include the new gravel pit, and didn't include 16 Avery. 17 MR. KING: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: There was a meeting -- what 19 was it, Jonathan, two weeks ago? Something like that, where 20 TexDOT was there asking -- making sure that the citizens had 21 input and the local governments had their input to it, so -- 22 MR. WOOD: Besides the safety aspect, you've got 23 the wear and tear on the roads with these dump trucks. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Correct. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's the county's number one 38 1 priority in the county, is to upgrade 27 from basically 534 2 to Center Point. It's our number one priority. 3 MR. KING: Right. Have they worked out the deal 4 with TexDOT on the Avery entrance? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Avery? I believe they probably 6 have, from what TexDOT told me, they are requiring these 7 businesses going in to do the upgrades -- or to pay for it. 8 TexDOT will do it. 9 MR. WOOD: Well, with the Avery workforce and the 10 Mooney workforce, you're almost going to need a traffic light 11 or something over here. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've mentioned that to them as 13 well. We're very concerned about it. 14 MR. LIVERMORE: Whatever they do will be first 15 class, I'm sure. But, you know, if I understand it, here's 16 -- here's the highway right here. Here's the hay field right 17 here. The other gravel pit's down here, so trucks are -- to 18 get to this, trucks are going to have to proceed up 27 and 19 then turn left across the highway. Even -- even with a 20 center decel lane, they're going to have to decel into that 21 lane and then make a turn across that highway. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 23 MR. LIVERMORE: And then coming out, there will be 24 some type of a lane there where they'll turn into that and 25 then accelerate and merge into the highway. Is that -- 39 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: All TexDOT stuff. 2 MR. LIVERMORE: I understand that. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the plan, yes. 4 MR. LIVERMORE: But they're going to be turning 5 across that highway with those ginormous trucks. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, I don't -- they're both 7 on the same side of the highway. I don't know why they'd 8 turn. 9 MR. KING: No, the truck will come from Center 10 Point. 11 MR. LIVERMORE: As they proceed north here, they've 12 got to get into the -- 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Oh, yeah. 14 MR. LIVERMORE: So that's going to be a big traffic 15 hindrance. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Their traffic count they gave, 17 it's not nearly as much as I would have thought. What was 18 it, 18 a day? 19 MR. WOOD: Dump truck traffic? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which is still -- it's 21 dangerous, but it's not, you know, like every 30 minutes or 22 every 15 minutes you're going to have a truck pulling in. I 23 think it was 18 a day. It came in something like, you know, 24 one every 45 minutes, or one every hour at the most. 25 MR. KING: Right. 40 1 MR. LIVERMORE: But there's no limit on that. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. They can be -- 3 MR. LIVERMORE: It could be 50. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 5 MR. KING: Okay. Anybody else have anything on 6 that? Item 4E. 7 MR. LIVERMORE: I think that -- 8 MR. KING: Time for breakfast. We'll have the 9 restaurant. 10 MR. LIVERMORE: We probably ought to discuss this 11 in executive session, sir. 12 MR. KING: Really? 13 MR. LIVERMORE: Mm-hmm. 14 MR. KING: Really? 15 MR. LIVERMORE: 'Cause I'm going to mention a name 16 to you, and I don't know that that person -- 17 MR. KING: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Aren't you -- just to go into 19 executive session, doesn't it have to be for personnel or 20 contract negotiations? 21 MR. McKENZIE: Economic development of the airport. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 23 MR. KING: That would be under economic 24 development. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 41 1 MR. WOOD: Why don't you -- are you going to go in 2 executive session for the personnel matter? 3 MR. KING: Yeah, I think. Is that -- 4 MR. McKENZIE: Yes. 5 MR. LIVERMORE: We can do that in the same -- 6 MR. WOOD: For their benefit, you can just tell 7 them to read the paper. (Laughter.) Big article in the 8 paper about Jason. 9 MR. LIVERMORE: Yeah. 10 MR. KING: About the personal matter. 11 MR. WOOD: Yeah. 12 MR. KING: We can't say who it was. 13 MR. WOOD: Okay. 14 MR. KING: I've been warned about that. 15 MR. WOOD: I didn't say that. 16 MR. LIVERMORE: You referred to the paper. 17 MR. KING: Okay. There's a nice article on one of 18 our employees in the paper today. I urge y'all guys to take 19 a look at it. We can't even talk about that; is that right? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can't mention any names. 21 MR. BRYANT: I went to visit him in the hospital. 22 MR. KING: Did you? 23 MR. BRYANT: Yeah. 24 MR. KING: Thank you, Dave. All right, general 25 update. 42 1 MR. LIVERMORE: So we're not going to talk about 2 those matters? Oh, you're coming back to them. 3 MR. WOOD: Don't want to make everybody wait 4 around. 5 MR. LIVERMORE: Yeah, I got you. 6 MR. KING: General update. 7 MR. McKENZIE: Several quick things. The first 8 thing, so everybody knows, today is Kathy's last day, and 9 we're going to have some cake and coffee after this and thank 10 her for her service. She -- I don't know -- how long have 11 you been with the county? 12 THE REPORTER: Seventeen and a half years. 13 MR. McKENZIE: She was in the military prior to 14 that, and now she's retiring. 15 MR. KING: Very good. 16 MR. McKENZIE: Thank you for everything. 17 MR. WOOD: We appreciate you. 18 MR. McKENZIE: The first thing -- I've got six 19 things here I need to cover real quick. The January meeting 20 always falls on Martin Luther King Day. That's not -- that's 21 a work day for us. Is that still okay for the board to have 22 a meeting on that day? Or do you want to -- 23 MR. KING: What day is that? 24 MR. McKENZIE: On a Monday, the 18th. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's my birthday, just to let 43 1 y'all know. 2 MR. LIVERMORE: We'll have a cake. 3 MR. McKENZIE: Just so we don't get any 4 consternation. 5 MR. WOOD: You and Martin Luther King. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's right. 7 MR. McKENZIE: Is it okay to have the meeting that 8 day? 9 MR. KING: I don't have a problem. 10 MR. McKENZIE: Everybody good? Patrick? 11 MR. O'FIEL: I'm good. 12 MR. McKENZIE: You're good? 13 MR. KING: Okay. 14 MR. McKENZIE: Number two, we had a visit last week 15 from -- late last week from Megan McLellan, our airport 16 planner from TexDOT. Everything -- she was very pleased with 17 everything. 18 MR. LIVERMORE: Isn't that the lady that used to be 19 at -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The City. 21 MR. McKENZIE: No, this is Megan McLellan. Megan 22 Caffall was with the City. 23 MR. LIVERMORE: Okay. 24 MR. McKENZIE: Megan McLellan came out of Louisiana 25 airport system. She's our planner now. She was happy with 44 1 it. The down side to it, and there is a down side, is the 2 grants for new hangars, they have now capped that at $600,000 3 for 90/10 projects. 4 MR. KING: Really? 5 MR. McKENZIE: 600,000. We got in right under the 6 wire with our project. 7 MR. LIVERMORE: Wow. 8 MR. McKENZIE: It was $801,000. So, they'll go to 9 $600,000. Anything above that, it's over on us. It's our -- 10 it's our dime. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Are we in the queue? 12 MR. McKENZIE: Oh, yeah, I've sent the letter. 13 We're in the queue for the new corporate hangar, as well as 14 new T-hangars as well. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: When would that happen? 16 MR. McKENZIE: That's the next -- that's where I'm 17 headed with this. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 19 MR. McKENZIE: Our four-year window for our primary 20 entitlement funds is $150,000 a year. At the end of this 21 year, we'll have $300,000. The question is -- and I know we 22 can't make a decision 'cause this is just information, but I 23 think I know what your answer's going to be. She wanted to 24 know, do we want to go ahead and use that at the end of the 25 4th year so we can start planning to build, perhaps, 10 new 45 1 T-hangars? If that's where we want to use our primary 2 entitlement funds. And we don't have to have an answer 3 today, but we need to be -- 4 MR. LIVERMORE: One issue -- 5 MR. McKENZIE: -- contemplating that. 6 MR. LIVERMORE: We're talking about building those 7 now -- I think the math is right in 2018. 8 MR. McKENZIE: Yes. 9 MR. LIVERMORE: Now, the cost might be -- 10 MR. McKENZIE: It would be more expensive, that's 11 correct. 12 MR. LIVERMORE: The gap between 600 and the cost 13 may be greater than what was -- 14 MR. McKENZIE: But the cap is 600,000. And, like I 15 say, we came in under the wire on these. We were fortunate. 16 MR. LIVERMORE: Great investment. 17 MR. McKENZIE: Anyway, be thinking about it. But I 18 think we need to move forward with that. The next thing is 19 the Mooney roof is 85 percent complete. I've talked to -- 20 got the information from the contractor this last week. 21 Their expected completion date is the 1st of April. They 22 expect to be completely done and out of there by April 1, and 23 the reason being is it's the cooler weather now, and the 24 coatings they're applying, the manufacturer -- there's 25 warranty issues. But if we get a lot of nice warm summer 46 1 days like we get a lot in the wintertime, we -- 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Is it dry now? Most of it's 3 all done? 4 MR. McKENZIE: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So it's dry? 6 MR. McKENZIE: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. That was my question. 8 MR. McKENZIE: Most of it's all got the -- they 9 just need to put that coating on there now. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: May I ask one question? 11 MR. McKENZIE: Sure. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: On the 300,000 that you talked 13 about, can that be used for the paint hangar upgrade? 14 MR. McKENZIE: Only -- we cannot use primary 15 entitlement funds unless we include TexDOT in the project for 16 a new project, from the inception until the completion. I 17 tried to get them to let us have that $300,000 to build this 18 hangar for Mr. Rizo, Rizo Jet, and they won't release the 19 funds unless we go through them. We have to let them run -- 20 drive the train, in other words. They won't -- that's a 21 great question, and I asked that, but they won't let us have 22 the funds unless it's a new building and they're -- 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It has to be a new building? 24 MR. McKENZIE: And they have to be in charge of it, 25 just like they normally are. 47 1 MR. KING: So we use RAMP grant -- just use RAMP 2 grant or reserves? 3 MR. McKENZIE: Well -- I'm sorry. Did I answer 4 your question? 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, you answered it. 6 MR. McKENZIE: The RAMP grant, we've -- I've got -- 7 we have to do the Mooney paving project when we finish the 8 roofing project, because we couldn't do it while they're 9 working over there. That's going to use up another $30,000 10 worth of materials. Then what's left, I've got planned to 11 use this year on some paving and a few maintenance things on 12 our air side. Then next year's RAMP grant, which is 13 $100,000, it's going to take most, if not all of that to do 14 what I want to do to Runway 12/30, which is to reseal it. 15 It's due to be resealed, and I want to do that. So, next 16 year's money I've got -- I haven't officially committed it, 17 but in my plan, I've got that money committed for that runway 18 next year. 19 MR. KING: When was the last time we resealed it? 20 MR. McKENZIE: It's been about five years ago. We 21 resealed it and then repainted it -- the numbers, restriped 22 it. Just so the board will know that's what my thinking is. 23 MR. KING: But we could always -- if we can, we can 24 look at it and see. 25 MR. McKENZIE: Yes, sir. 48 1 MR. KING: There's priorities. We can always push 2 it back. 3 MR. McKENZIE: TexDOT likes to see you do those 4 runways at least once every seven years. They like to see 5 something happen. 6 MR. KING: So you do it in five. 7 MR. McKENZIE: If we can do it next year, we're 8 good. 9 MR. WOOD: I have a question. 10 MR. KING: Or next year. 11 MR. McKENZIE: Or next year. 12 MR. WOOD: New T-hangars, is the TexDOT money the 13 only way we're considering to do that? You know, you 14 remember Harry Ingram's presentation; if you did it outside 15 of TexDOT, you could do it for considerably less. And have 16 we -- are we not going to try to go to the Economic 17 Improvement Committee or whatever they are? 18 MR. KING: You can. (Laughter.) 19 MR. WOOD: I just was curious if there's any 20 alternative -- 21 MR. LIVERMORE: Sounds like you've been there. 22 MR. KING: I'm not going back. 23 MR. WALTERS: Bruce, didn't you talk with them on 24 this -- the hangar that we were contemplating for Rizo, 25 didn't you talk with E.I.C.? Or did you not? 49 1 MR. McKENZIE: I talked with Jonas Titas. 2 MR. WALTERS: Jonas Titas, yeah. 3 MR. McKENZIE: I talked with Jonas about it, and he 4 presented it to those folks. 5 MR. WALTERS: Mm-hmm. 6 MR. McKENZIE: And -- 7 MR. WALTERS: Their response -- 8 MR. McKENZIE: -- wasn't too good. I'll leave it 9 at that. 10 MR. WALTERS: Okay. 11 MR. WOOD: Well, I just think that's a shame, 12 because the charter of the E.I.C. is to do things for the -- 13 MR. KING: City. 14 MR. WOOD: -- the area. 15 MR. KING: For the city. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And ETJ. 17 MR. McKENZIE: Yeah. 18 MR. WOOD: This would be a money-maker, and I can't 19 think of a better project for them. But, anyway -- 20 MR. McKENZIE: That's what I was told. 21 MR. WOOD: All right. 22 MR. WALTERS: That's why I asked. What were you 23 told? 24 MR. McKENZIE: That's what I was told. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: What was the reason they said 50 1 no? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause it benefits the county. 3 MR. LIVERMORE: Something about city money can't be 4 used out in the county. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It's in the ETJ. 6 MR. LIVERMORE: Man, I'm just -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's the current policy of the 8 current Council. 9 MR. LIVERMORE: That's probably it right there. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause they built the -- they 11 put a lot of money in the shooting center, which is in the 12 ETJ. 13 MR. WOOD: Going to shoot themselves in the foot. 14 MR. KING: We're just soldiers. 15 MR. LIVERMORE: Yeah, right. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: As a matter of fact, the 17 hangar -- the facility you're talking about is in the city. 18 It's in the city. 19 MR. KING: Yeah. Perhaps we should put that on the 20 agenda next time to discuss that. 21 MR. WOOD: I just think it would be nice if we 22 could get those T-hangars sooner than 2018. 23 MR. KING: I agree. 24 MR. McKENZIE: The next thing is Rizo Jet. He 25 obviously let everybody know they pulled his agenda items for 51 1 today's meeting. His concern now is -- without getting into 2 a lot more detail, he's concerned about space for future 3 expansion over there now. 4 MR. KING: Where? Over there? 5 MR. LIVERMORE: Blue building. 6 MR. McKENZIE: He's working on that. He's working 7 with two different contractors. He's working with Robert 8 Langford that built our hangars for us. He's also working 9 with Steve Huser. Both of those guys are helping him, I know 10 for a fact, 'cause I'm talking to everybody. 11 MR. WALTERS: He's worried the business -- 12 MR. McKENZIE: That he's not going to have enough 13 room over to there to expand like he wants to. That's why 14 they're changing their building model a little bit, and 15 talking about building another hangar next to it. He's -- 16 here's the situation. And you guys all know about ADS-B, 17 which is going to happen by 1 January 2020. It's got to 18 happen. And that's going to keep all the avionics businesses 19 loaded till then. Well, that's one of the things that's 20 going to get him apparently a good -- a good liftoff, if you 21 will, with this business. So, he's concerned about that. 22 And then he wants to put a paint shop in eventually. He 23 wants to do interiors. I mean, he wants to do the one-stop 24 shopping, he's telling me, so that's where he's at now, and 25 he's -- they're working on their base plan. 52 1 MR. KING: I hope they're working on their money 2 plan too. (Laughter.) 3 MR. McKENZIE: That's -- I hope they are too. 4 MR. WOOD: Well, I think the message to the Airport 5 Board is we need to think about how we could accommodate that 6 guy if he pulls all that off. 7 MR. McKENZIE: Well -- 8 MR. KING: We can accommodate him. 9 MR. McKENZIE: We can accommodate him. And one 10 thing that just -- I'm sorry, go ahead. 11 MR. KING: It takes money. Remember the movies, 12 "No bucks, no Buck Rogers"? Same thing. We're in the same 13 position. 14 MR. McKENZIE: One of the things that was going to 15 save some money in this new construction, he wanted to 16 construct the building next to the apron on this end. 17 MR. KING: Right. 18 MR. McKENZIE: This end of the apron next to the 19 self-service fuel farm. 20 MR. KING: Sure. 21 MR. McKENZIE: And I told him I'm not in favor of 22 that, because then he's going to be storing airplanes right 23 here where our ingress and egress -- that's our main ingress 24 and egress to the airport, and when we're busy -- and like 25 these Sovereigns are all sitting out here like happens 53 1 frequently, then the FBO's cut off. He's choked off over 2 here. So, I encouraged him to move it back again. The cost 3 was the concrete. It was like $600,000 or $700,000 just to 4 pour the concrete apron out there, and that was a -- a red 5 flag. I mean, there's all kinds of red flags. 6 MR. KING: Well, let's let him come up with a plan. 7 MR. McKENZIE: So we need to let him come up with 8 his plans. That's where I'm going. 9 MR. LIVERMORE: But he still wants to come here? 10 MR. McKENZIE: Yes. 11 MR. LIVERMORE: There's not, like -- 12 MR. McKENZIE: He hasn't told me otherwise, and I 13 talked to him Monday. So, the last thing I've got is, over 14 the Thanksgiving four-day holiday, the F.B.O. sold 15 18,500 gallons of Jet-A, so he had a good four days. This 16 place was just super busy four days, so he sold a lot of 17 fuel. So -- 18 MR. LIVERMORE: You know, I hear a number of people 19 that just -- I guess they figured out I'm on the Airport 20 Board, and I have a number of people -- and this is becoming 21 a pattern, really. People approach me and thank me, or us 22 for the job we're doing here at this airport. There's a lot 23 of people in town that are aware of what's going on out here. 24 And I think the paper's done a good job of reporting it, and 25 the word's just kind of crept out there somehow. But, I 54 1 mean, two or three people a week bring it up to me. I don't 2 know if y'all are experiencing that or not. 3 MR. WALTERS: I have. And that's one of the things 4 that makes me think that we need to get somehow with the 5 County and City, get over this hurdle of money and projects. 6 And, you know, we're only going to be able to continue to 7 grow this airport and have the feedback like that if we have 8 the sources and the funds to do projects that bring services 9 and employment to the airport. 10 MR. McKENZIE: That's right. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One of the difficulties from 12 the county standpoint -- and I'm only speaking for the 13 county -- is that when we issue C.O.'s, which we do for a lot 14 of this type of financing, it's difficult to issue them for 15 projects that are going to be revenue-producing. We can go 16 build an Ag Barn, because we're not making any money off 17 that. But if you go build a terminal, it's going to be 18 turned around and leased to the public. There's a lot of 19 strings that come in with how you can do that, and it's 20 difficult -- much more difficult for us to borrow, so we have 21 to kind of set aside money, which is, you know -- 22 MR. LIVERMORE: So you're saying that revenue -- 23 again, I'm not -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can't combine. They're 25 different. You can do it; it's just that it's not as easy. 55 1 And all of a sudden, you're borrowing tax dollars for the 2 benefit -- it's one -- the rating you get is one thing, but 3 also, just from the public, we're borrowing money to help a 4 business. And -- 5 MR. LIVERMORE: Is there anything -- and I'm 6 asking -- I don't know who I'm asking, the lawyer or who, but 7 is there some way this board can have bonding capacity? Or 8 is that -- that's probably not allowed. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not at the current structure, 10 no. I agree with you, Corey. I mean, we try to do it. The 11 more reserves we can get, you know, at the airport built up 12 over time, to me, that -- the goal so to have that money 13 available to y'all to seed these projects. 14 MR. WALTERS: Yeah. Well, it's just -- and you're 15 talking about the reserves of the airport? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 17 MR. WALTERS: Well, it's just -- 18 MR. WOOD: Takes time to get there. 19 MR. WALTERS: Yeah, takes a lot of time to get 20 there. And a lot of times, those -- those two lines don't 21 coincide with each other. We have an opportunity, and if we 22 don't have the -- the money, the financial -- the financial 23 vehicle in which to make that happen, I mean, these people 24 are going to go somewhere else. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 56 1 MR. WOOD: You know, there is one method. We've 2 been knocking down the money that the City and the County 3 contribute to the airport every year to try to be 4 revenue-neutral. Maybe we need to include growth in our 5 budget plan and say, hey, we -- instead of 45,000, we need 6 90,000. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's probably not a bad 8 approach to put it into a capital account that y'all have out 9 here. I mean, it takes -- it doesn't solve the problem 10 immediately Corey's talking about, but it certainly gets you 11 long-term -- 12 MR. LIVERMORE: Effectively, if you come in and put 13 in money, that's what it is. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 15 MR. LIVERMORE: That's the only reason you do it. 16 MR. WOOD: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You know, it's still -- it's 18 mind-boggling. And I understand there may be a little bit of 19 politics, but why E.I.C. funds are not available to do this 20 kind of thing, which is jobs and infrastructure and -- 21 MR. WOOD: I thought that's why they were there. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It is. 23 MR. WOOD: To accomplish things like that. 24 MR. GRIFFIN: It is. 25 MR. LIVERMORE: Well, are they participating -- I 57 1 don't know, maybe Avery's in the city, but is it -- 2 MR. KING: City. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, they're participating with 4 that. Well, the airport's in the city, and the County's 5 doing some incentives with Avery as well. 6 MR. WALTERS: I can't tell you how many people, 7 when I bring up projects, you know, or possible projects such 8 as Rizo Jet, you know, for the airport, and that we just 9 don't have a funding mechanism to accomplish those, and -- 10 you know, and the question of E.I.C. comes up, and people go, 11 "Well, isn't that what it's for?" 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It is. 13 MR. LIVERMORE: Right, exactly. 14 MR. WALTERS: I mean, I get the same response all 15 the time, you know. Yes, you know, it's for creating jobs; 16 it's for, you know, creating additional services for the 17 airport which benefit the whole community. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Mm-hmm. 19 MR. LIVERMORE: And, you know, it's a cute little 20 way of saying it, but we're out here; we hear the bluebird 21 singing, but we can't do anything or we're going to miss 22 spring, you know. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, I think, you know, even 24 when we did the master plan, part of the study was, what's 25 the economic impact of this airport? As I recall, it's 58 1 15 million a year to the economy, and that didn't include the 2 money that comes into this community, okay, from people doing 3 billions of dollars worth of improvements in ranches around 4 here. 5 MR. LIVERMORE: The ranch economy has supported 6 this airport. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: The 15 million didn't include 8 that kind of thing. And Jonathan sees it as much as anybody, 9 what money that's going into some of these facilities around 10 here. The money's all spent locally, you know. It's huge. 11 MR. KING: Have you ever considered -- has the 12 County ever considered visiting with the City about making 13 this authority an authority like it was voted on many, many 14 years ago, and enacted -- actually voted on by the citizens? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably ought to put that on 16 the agenda sometime. 17 MR. KING: And discuss that. Because -- 18 MR. McKENZIE: Back in the '80's. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe that should be an agenda 20 item. 21 MR. KING: You should put that as an agenda item 22 for next month, because it was voted on in the '80's by the 23 citizens to establish the airport as an airport authority, 24 giving it taxing authority. It's one of only two, I think, 25 in the state of Texas that's never enacted it, never actually 59 1 gone that direction. But it's an interesting -- interesting 2 discussion to have with the airport and the owners, because 3 it does solve a lot of the issues that -- 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 5 MR. KING: -- are being brought up today in our 6 update. So, we probably should put that on the agenda to 7 maybe talk about that. Okay. 8 MR. WALTERS: I just don't think that we should put 9 all of our -- or the bulk of our employment eggs in one 10 basket at Mooney. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 13 MR. KING: Okay. Let's put that on the agenda. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Especially, Corey, when you 15 look at where this airport was several years ago. Before 16 the good thing happened over at Mooney, we were scared to 17 death, -- 18 MR. WALTERS: Exactly. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- you know, about the 20 liability and the expense of -- of tearing down facilities 21 over there. And it was the same thing with the paint hangar. 22 It's crazy that we can't do something. We can't let it sit 23 there and rust. 24 MR. KING: Right. All right, we'll discuss that in 25 the next one. 60 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 2 MR. KING: Thank y'all. 3 MR. LIVERMORE: Good discussion. 4 MR. KING: Any more -- 5 MR. McKENZIE: Just two quick ones. Y'all got both 6 letters I sent to Mr. Spain about his derelict airplane over 7 here. We'll see what happens 1 January. I saw him over 8 there yesterday working on it. He was airing the tires up. 9 I don't know what that means. 10 MR. LIVERMORE: Has he started the engine? 11 MR. McKENZIE: No, sir. 12 MR. LIVERMORE: Stand back. 13 MR. McKENZIE: That's all I have, Steve. 14 MR. KING: Well, good. Thank you, Bruce. 15 MR. McKENZIE: You're welcome. 16 MR. KING: All right. Anybody have anything else? 17 We'll go into -- 18 MR. LIVERMORE: Should we do the party part before? 19 'Cause some of these people might not want to wait. 20 MR. KING: We'll do that. Just come back -- we'll 21 take a recess for 15 minutes, and -- 22 MR. WOOD: For Kathy's party. 23 MR. LIVERMORE: We want your party. 24 MR. KING: Then we'll come back in and go into 25 executive session, so we'll recess at 38 after the hour, 61 1 okay? 2 (Recess taken from 9:38 a.m. to 9:53 a.m.) 3 - - - - - - - - - - 4 MR. KING: Okay, it's 9:53, and we're back in open 5 session, and we're going to go into executive session under 6 -- on Items 4E and 4F under 551.072 and 551.087. This will 7 be basically economic development on 4E, and under 4F, it 8 will be under 551.074, which is a personnel matter for the 9 airport that we need to discuss in executive session. So, 10 we'll go into executive session at 8:50 -- 11 MR. GRIFFIN: 9:50. 12 MR. KING: -- 9:54. And I'll let you know when 13 we're out of executive session, okay? 14 (The open session was closed at 9:54 a.m., and an executive session was held, the transcript of which 15 is contained in a separate document.) 16 - - - - - - - - - - 17 MR. KING: Okay, we're out of executive session at 18 10:14. We discussed two matters. There's no action taken on 19 either one of them -- is that correct? 20 MR. WALTERS: Right. 21 MR. KING: No action taken on either one of them, 22 so we'll go back into regular session at 10:14 -- no, 10:15. 23 I need a motion to adjourn. 24 MR. LIVERMORE: So moved. 25 MR. WALTERS: Second. 62 1 MR. KING: All in favor? 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote, 5-0.) 3 MR. KING: We're adjourned. 4 (Airport Board meeting adjourned at 10:15 a.m.) 5 - - - - - - - - - - 6 7 8 9 STATE OF TEXAS | 10 COUNTY OF KERR | 11 I, Kathy Banik, official reporter for Kerr County, 12 Texas, do hereby certify that the above and foregoing is a 13 true and complete transcription of my stenotype notes taken 14 at the time and place heretofore set forth. 15 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 22nd day of December, 16 2015. 17 _______________________________ Kathy Banik, Texas CSR # 6483 18 Expiration Date: 12/31/16 Official Court Reporter 19 Kerr County, Texas 700 Main Street 20 Kerrville, Texas 78028 Phone: 830-792-2295 21 22 23 24 25